Value Over Volume: Inside Chaz’s Detroit Recap & Powerful Connections

Detroit surprised us, and not just with the skyline. A quick trip to speak at the Visionary Builders conference turned into a real-world lesson on how to build a better law firm and a better life at the same time. We talk through what it’s like to drop into a new city, meet a room full of strangers, and still deliver when you’re juggling trial prep, travel, and the pressure to perform.

The heart of the conversation is the value versus volume mindset for attorneys. We break down the “sniper vs machine gun” idea and why the legal industry is not built to scale like a software company. Taking more cases can feel like growth, but it often creates stress, sloppy service, and burnout. We share how high-value cases usually come from doing excellent work, giving clients a high-touch experience, and letting referrals happen as a byproduct of trust instead of chasing leads.

A big theme that keeps showing up is community and authenticity. We dig into how coaching, mentoring, shaking hands, and showing up without an agenda builds real social capital. We also talk about the stigma around lawyers and why we think the fix is simple but demanding: be present, give back, educate the public, and let your reputation travel faster than your ads.

If you’re a lawyer, law firm owner, or any professional thinking about legal marketing, networking, referrals, and work-life balance, you’ll leave with practical ideas you can use this week. Subscribe, share this with a friend who’s stuck in “more, more, more,” and leave a review. What’s one small way you can step outside your comfort zone next week?

You can watch most full episodes of Law Have Mercy on YouTube!

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If you are in need of legal guidance, visit our website: https://www.chazrobertslaw.com/

This show is co-produced by Carter Simoneaux of AcadianaCasts Network, Chaz H. Roberts of Chaz Roberts Law and Kayli Guidry Bonin of Beau The Agency, and Laith Alferahin. 

Transcript

Breaking From Trial Prep

SPEAKER_00 0:00

All right, so I'm currently taking a break from a trial that I'm preparing for on Monday. And while I'm on break, I said, let me record a little podcast for Law Have Mercy. And so I want to talk about my Detroit trip. I just got back from Detroit. I went Thursday through Saturday, and I was fortunate enough to ask to be to speak at the Visionary Builders conference. And it all started. My friend Dunia Bazi, she's a wonderful attorney. She has a big law firm in Dearborn, Michigan. She and I met at a conference a few years ago. And it's one of those typical look, the whoever the host is of the conferences, look to your left, look to your right, introduce yourself. I met Dunia. We clicked immediately. We went outside, we started sharing ideas, building, we became friends, and she and I hopped on some calls. And I didn't know this at the time, but I told her something that triggered something in her brain when she was in a transition of her own firm. And it was about the value versus volume proposition. And that stuck with her. And she, you know, about six months, she reached six months ago, she reached out to me and says, Chaz, I'm putting together a conference. I would like for you for you to speak. Uh, because something you said changed the way I do business. And I was like, wow, I didn't even realize that. And so as the conference got closer, I said, Absolutely, doing you anything you need. I mean, she's just one of those people that when she asks you for something, you do it because she pours so much of her heart and soul into so many people in the community and everything else. And she's such a just a great person. And so I didn't have any hesitation. Of course, I'll do it. And then she told me about the value versus volume, sort of how she started looking at things. And I was like, wow, I thought that was just something that I said in passing, right? But that is how I live and that's how I work my firm. And so um I agreed to it and I put together a presentation about two months ago on a trip to Bro Bridge. I was driving to Bro Bridge and I and I basically dictated my whole presentation. And wouldn't you know it came up on my calendar, Detroit? And I was like, oh, well, Lathe, book a flight, buddy. And so um, yeah, that's how it happened. And uh it was a great experience, and I want to talk about it. Um, so I go, I arrive in Detroit. I went Thursday. Uh, I arrive in Detroit. I get to downtown Detroit, I'm staying at the West End, beautiful building, and I am very, I am pleasantly surprised downtown Detroit. You see things on TV, whatever. There's definitely a resurgence of energy in downtown Detroit. There's some beautiful buildings. I was surrounded by beautiful buildings, there's walkable areas, there's parks downtown, all of the professional uh venues of downtown, like the Comerica Park, Ford Field, and where the Detroit Pistons play. It's all downtown. And so it was really cool. A good friend of mine, Max Olive, is there, and I texted him that I was heading there, and he offered to bring me to dinner. And so I arrive at about 6:30 p.m. Don't forget that's eastern time zone. I thought it was central. It's eastern time zone. I lost an hour at 6:30. I go change real quick. I do some pushups. I didn't get my workout in. I do some push-ups, I shower, I get dressed, we go to dinner. We had a uh, I think the the restaurant was probably a three-minute walk from my hotel. It was real convenient, had some great food, and Max said, like, let me walk around and show you the city. And so we went to, we had a great experience at the restaurant, and then we went to um the book uh building, the book tower. And it is a a tower, like uh an old skyscraper you would see in New York City, 16 floors, 720-something floors. I don't know how how big this was. Dan Gilbert, who is the owner of the Cleveland Cavaliers and owns Rocket Mortgage and several other companies, rehabbed this building. And they put uh I think close to a billion dollars into it. It's all Italian marble on the inside and outside. It's it is immaculate. There's a French restaurant, a Japanese restaurant, a sushi bar. Like it is awesome. It's a there's condominiums, there's long-term hotel stays, there's restaurants, and there's a cool bar at the top, and it has a great view of the city. And so we went, and um, that was a cool experience. And at about uh I noticed that there's a brand new skyscraper that was built downtown Detroit. When's the last time you've seen a new skyscraper go up? And then there's the GM building, and then you could see um the campus, uh Martius campus, where I would be speaking. Beautiful building, beautiful. And uh so I was pleasantly surprised with Detroit. And uh I look at my watch, it's 11 p.m. I'm like, hey Max, I gotta get, I gotta go to my hotel, brother. Enjoy spending time with you. Uh Max is such a great guy. And uh so I went went back uh to my hotel, got some sleep, 6, 7 a.m. the next morning. I was like, let me look at my notes. Because I actually on the flight there is when I kind of edited my slideshow. Dunya's team made me a great slideshow with like 60-something slides. I got it down to like 40-something slides, looked at my notes. I had been so busy. Again, part of that is that trial that I have coming up. I was in a deposition until probably 7:30 Wednesday night. And then I had that early morning flight to Detroit, and I really didn't get a chance to prepare for my speech. And so I'm going through my notes, I'm like, man, I got this. This is my life. I know this well. So I felt good about it. And um I get to the campus Marshall's park where the Rocket Mortgage owns it, and this building is beautiful. I mean, when you walk in, there's an atrium, and there's like a 16-story um open air area where you can see to the top, and there's a waterfall sort of fountain with umbrellas or different colors, like going all the way down, cascading all the way down. Like this is legit. And that's where the conference was being held. At the on the 16th floor where the conference was actually held, there's a skyline view where you can walk outside and see Camerica Park and downtown Detroit. I posted some of those pictures on social media. You may have seen it. So it couldn't have been cooler. I get there, I check in, there's a little green room in there. I shot some emails, looked at my notes, and then I sat inside the conference and and um enjoyed the speakers. I listened to some good speakers. Dunya was one of them. Fuat, her husband, awesome dude. Um, that's Dunya's husband. He's killing it in the Airbnb game, high-end Airbnbs. And so it was cool to collaborate with him. He had heard a lot about me. I I follow him on social media and I saw the cool things that he was doing. And so I I immediately kind of hit it off with everyone there. And um, oh, on my walk there, I met this nice lady named Sarah. She's a lawyer in Florida, and um, she saw me trip on the way to the conference. She was like, Are you here for the conference? I'm actually speaking, and then I trip, almost bust my ass. So that's Late laughing in the background. I said, Late, chime in if you have any questions. She was like, I didn't see that. And um she she and I sat next to each other and I learned a little bit about her business, and then she saw me speak and she took some pictures that I was able to post on social media, just really cool. She and her associate, and um, she actually sent me a book. Uh, by the time I got back home, the book Unreasonable Hospitality was in my and she wrote a nice little note and I and I sent her a thank you note as well. So I my point is I met a lot of cool people there. And um so I I give my presentation and I talk for 45 minutes and I don't look at my notes one time. I don't look at I I had a stack of notes and I didn't look at it one time and I was just flowing. I looked at the video and I said, damn, I killed it. But I need to fix my posture and I'm walking way too damn too damn much, right? Because I was trying to bring the energy, right? And and the way I was bringing the energy was like just I was I was pacing and I was like, I need to not pace so much, and I need to fix my damn posture. And it sounds like what some of my wife tells me all the time like keep your head up, and I got I got tech neck bad and I'm working on it, just trust me. So my presentation is basically like value versus volume, and I start and I say, look, I'm gonna teach you guys how to make more money and have more free time, and that free time you're gonna do more things you love, and while you're doing things you love, is gonna lead to more money. Sound good? And I came up with that kind of on the spot, and then my my first to second slide was like be a sniper versus a machine gunnist. And a sniper is high and dry on a perch. Um, no one sees him, no one detects him. He's got foot warmers on, he's chilling, one shot, one kill, high value target. A machine gunnist, he's lugging the ammunition, he's in the jungle, he's getting wet, his feet are wet, he's getting shot at, he's getting friendly fire. It's a tough life, right? And that's kind of the value versus volume uh proposition. And then I kind of talked about like Grant Cordon and Alex Ramosi and all these influencers are talking about scale, scale, scale, more, more, more. The reality is that's you're chasing your tail. The practice of law is not a volume, it's not set up for volume, it's not a software company. It still requires human empathy, human judgment, human, a human touch. And so when you lead to more, it doesn't necessarily mean more money or a more business or a better product. You want, you want good. You don't want a lot, right? And um the sniper versus is funny, you know, it I feel like Slum Dog Millionaire, if you remember that movie about how like he's answering all these questions and and and how he they think that he's cheating because this young guy, this young Indian guy is answering all these questions. And the movie goes in reverse and shows how all his life experiences gave him the answer to those questions. And you know, as I'm reflecting on kind of on my presentation, all the points that I made were experiences that I had. And the sniper versus machine gun example was I was in a boxing, I was I was at a boxing gym, and I told my friend what my presentation was about, and he was like, Yeah, you want to be a sniper, not a machine gun. And I was like, Great, I love that, I'm taking it, and I'm putting it in the presentation. So I talk about that, and then I and I said, Well, how do you get more high value cases? And I was like, by doing here's the boring answer, by doing a really good job on your cases, right? Because you want referrals and you want to do good work and you want your clients to become raving fans of you. And the only way you can do that is by giving that extra special touch and by being a great lawyer. By being a great lawyer working great cases, you get more great cases, and that's kind of a boring example, right? And then I I also talked about being in the community and making an impact in your community with zero expectation, and that goes back to the whole you know, more time doing the things you love. And I talked about how me being a coach of my kids' soccer team led to a big case. And I didn't coach my son in soccer for four years thinking I was gonna get a good case, right? I it just came from there because me being authentic and doing the things that I love, people saw what kind of person I was and also associated and knew I was a lawyer and I could be trusted, and I was hardworking and I had a kind heart. They trusted me when they needed it most. To me, this all seems very obvious. Um, and to some people it may have been obvious, but it's still good to reinforce those things, right? But to some people, it was an epiphany, and it was like, whoa, this is good stuff. And I knew I delivered and I knew that my message carried because from the rest of the conference that I was there and the after party, which we're gonna talk about, uh I say it's it was an after VIP party, was really a nice dinner at Dunya's home, dun Dunya and Fuwa's home. People came up to me and asked me questions about the presentation, which is a damn good sign that that people uh that it hit home. So um, yeah, I mean the conference I stayed for at the rest of the day at the conference. Now I was flying out the next morning to go to Houston for my uncle's retirement party. I get out at about five. I run in my leather shoes to Camerica because I had to get Luca Detroit Tigers jersey as a as a um souvenir. I get all the way there. And look, the weather in Detroit was kind of like Louisiana. It was it was kind of muggy, it's humid, it was not co it was not cool like in the afternoon. It was pretty warm, and I hear it gets really warm. Um the damn souvenir shop is closed. So I go around the corner and there's a um like an off, not an off brand, but like a lesser known. It wasn't the stadium endorsed one, it was it was a different one called Fanatics or something. I got them a jersey, so I was super pumped up about that. I get I get to the hotel, I rest for a second, and the party starts at 6 30. And I remember you telling me, Laf, you said Arabs are never on time.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Well, it depends on the setting, but likely not.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

Well, I was like, okay, it starts at 6 30. I could show up there at 7 38 and I'll be right on time. Well, no, I wasn't. I wasn't on time. I was probably the last one there. But but but they all embraced me and it was it was it was awesome. They had poof the food. The food, man. I I mean, look, so lathe has uh introduced me to the lifestyle and the food, and I I just I love uh Arabic cuisine. Is that the proper way of saying? I mean, the hummus and the eggplant and the grilled meats and the veggies and the was it fatouche salad?

SPEAKER_01 15:06

Yeah, fatouche, yeah. You were you were sending me all those videos and photos, and and I'm over across the country, across the world, and I'm like, man, I really wish I was back there.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Was it was it you that told me I'm gonna smell like garlic when I'm done? Yeah. But I mean, the food was so good. That's so good. And uh we had a hookah set up there. They were giving out she was like, hey, do you want spicy, berry, strong, light buzz? I said, yes.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Yes to all of them.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

She was like, no, there's an option. I was like, Yeah, can you do all of them? And it's just like, yeah. I said, put them all in there. Let's go with it.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Any any double apple? Was double apple around? What is that? Um, it's one of the flavors of hookah shisha. It's called to fa to fa, which is apple apple.

Community Builds Referrals Naturally

SPEAKER_00 15:53

I don't even know what the concoction they hooked up, but it was good. That's great. I was I was sucking on that hookah like this is my life. And then we had cigars, and I got to talk to Fuad a little bit more. And um they have a beautiful place, a beautiful home in Dearborn. And um, I've learned so much about the culture, right? It was mainly Arabic uh population there, right? And Dearborn, I think, is what I've told us is the highest um population of Middle Easterners outside of the Middle East. Yeah. Right. And um such kind people and nice people. I really enjoyed it. I mean, they embraced me. I embrace it's it's a culture that living in southwest Louisiana I'm not used to. But it was awesome. I mean, I'm more used to it now, now that you're around for the last two years, and Sammer and all those great people that I've uh been introduced to, but um such kind people and the food is just on point, on point. And I would love to go back. I'd love to go back to Detroit. Yes. Um, in that area. Um, takeaways, like what did I get out of it other than just the enjoyment of meeting so many new people, right? Being in that unique environment to me, sort of I look at it, I'm so intentional with everything I do. Um being in that unique environment builds my social capital, builds my internal, hey, you're outside of your comfort zone because you know no one here but Dunya, and Dunya's busy running the event. Dunya actually came up to me and says, Chaz, I wish we had more time to hang out. I said, Hey, you do you because you're a very important person. You're busy, I'm gonna do me, right? And because I'm gonna share my experiences. I met so many cool people. I mean, look, the the COO of the CEO lawyer, who I mean, they have thousands of cases now.

unknown 17:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

Awesome dude. I met a a a great guy there who um is moved recently moved from Florida to that area because his wife is um in residency there and we talked football and and some people Nick Saban? Well, yeah, they he brought up the Nick Saban thing, and um I I'm gonna be on another podcast for for a friend that I met there uh from from Alabama. I'm gonna be on another, hopefully be on another podcast, entrepreneur DNA. Wow, yeah. I mean, I met I met really cool people, and um, you know, it was you will never get there unless you put yourself outside of your comfort zone. Yes, you know, it's one thing to speak on stage and to deliver things you know well, but it's another thing to like dig in and and meet people and get to know people and um and share and build together. And I've exchanged phone numbers with a lot of a lot of guys, a lot of women uh who I was able to meet and they're in their practice in different stages of their practice. Some people absolutely killing it, some people are brand new. And uh one one guy I met was a 2L in law school, and I was like, wow, you had the wherewithal to come to this conference and meet lawyers. And so um I was able to give him some words of encouragement and some direction and give him my cell phone. Hey, if there's any way I can help you, let me know. Right. And here's my here here was my experience, here's what I've learned over the last 16 years.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

So um it was cool, man. It gave me a it gave me a new perspective on how things are done elsewhere. Um a big part of the presentation. I didn't get I didn't catch the presentation on Saturday, regretfully, because I had to go to a retirement party. Um I didn't have to go, I get to go. I was there, I was very happy to celebrate my uncle. And my uncle said he's coming on the podcast, not that he's retired, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

Oh, right.

Fixing The Lawyer Reputation Problem

SPEAKER_00 19:55

I said, dude, I'm I'm pumped up. Kenneth is Kenneth's amazing. Um But on this on the Friday, the same day that I presented, I was able to hear Dunya and Fuad and a couple other uh individuals, and the same theme kept on coming up community, authenticity. Uh pour into your community, pour into the people that matter to you and give without expectation. You know, um, one of the things that I did was they interviewed me after, and also I was on a panel in that afternoon too, a marketing panel, which was cool. Um, on the interview, the one of the questions was, What do you hope to improve about the legal community? Or where do you think the legal community misses it or whatever? And I was like, I forgot the exact question, but my answer was I think there's a stigma about lawyers that we need to fix. Because every lawyer that I meet is a valuable member of their community. They're donating to the kids' programs. I got a call this week about Teacher Appreciation Week. They want, you know, I this this week, I mean, today is Thursday. This week I've already been asked to help for Teacher Appreciation Week at Caron Crow High. I I had a kid who's a two-time state champion uh wrestler that needs some mentorship and help. I mean, I do those things. Monday I went to Braylon's signing to LSU, which was huge. Like, and I met so many, I shook hands with so many people, and to be available and to be present and to say, hey, I'm part of this community and I'm I'm here to help in any way I can, not just legally, but like just by presence. Yeah. You know? And so that was just good to get reinforced by people across the country that they're the people who are winning are doing the same thing. And that's kind of what my my interview question answered. Was was like we are good people doing good things, and they can't just associate us with billboards or high insurance rates or whatever it is that they uh the the the lawyer jokes, right? Is that we are pouring into our community in a big way and we're present. And to be quite honest, I see more lawyers on the streets doing things for people, being present, donating to sports programs and and boys and girls club and stuff than I do in a lot of other professions, you know, because because we have the means to do it, whether it's time or or energy or money or whatever, you know. And um, I think we should just continue to reinforce that. I think that the piecast, what we do here, is a big part of that. Here, here's the legal information. You're gonna have brushes with the law. Here's the legal information for free. Yeah. I hope that you get a tidbit or a nugget that helps you where you don't have to hire a lawyer. This is a free QA, right? Yes. So um, man, overall, it was just a a really great experience, uh, a great trip. It it comes with sacrifices. I missed my son's baseball game on Thursday. I watched it on Game Changer, though. It comes with sacrifice of sleep, it comes with sacrifice of being away from my bed, it comes with sacrifice about being away from my work, right? You know I'm I could work 24 hours a day, you know, it's never gonna be enough, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:29

And every time you leave, it gets even more busy.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

It gets more busy. Now, look, luckily, somebody booked me a business class trip.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Who did that? I don't know.

Dearborn Dinner And Culture Lessons

SPEAKER_00 23:38

I didn't get the bill for it yet, but um, and so I had free Wi-Fi and meals and everything, and so I was working the whole way, man. I mean, I I I worked on my slideshow when I was on the way there and I was able to answer emails. I was messaging the staff, questions that were coming up in the course of the day. I mean, I really I was as productive, if not more productive, than if I was actually in the office while I was doing those things. Um, but every time I get out of my comfort zone to experience a new culture, experience a new group of people, get on the stage, do those things, I improve as a man. I improve as a business owner, I improve as a lawyer, I improve as a father, I improve as a husband.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

It just does. And and I hope that more people get to experience that.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

Yeah. It's like you're shedding a skin and growing into another one, even in those small bits of experience.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Yeah, I appreciate that visual. But yeah, you're right. You're right. I mean, the I I say this all the time, and especially, you know, at least in the Catholic faith, right? Catholic faith, that, you know, the time about Easter, uh, Jesus dies on the cross and rises to salvation. And it's like the the the lesson there is in order to get to a higher you, not to be religious on this podcast, but in order to get to a higher you, the old you has to die somehow, aka Phoenix rising from the ashes, aka shedding your skin. Yes. And in order to get the higher you, the old you has to die to some extent. And so um, you know, I challenge all of you, right? You don't have to go speak at a conference in Detroit, but where can you shed your old skin? Where can you put yourself out the comfort zone? Can you go to a coffee shop and talk to people, talk to strangers? Can you go to a restaurant and and have a conversation with people? Can you start going out to eat lunch instead of eating your ham sandwich by yourself? You know, where can you get outside of your comfort zone? Because it is going to build your capital. I remember a time when I would go to conferences as an attendee and I would stick to myself. And I got a lot less out of it than when I just looked to the person to my left and the person to my right and introduced myself.

unknown 25:55

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

And you don't realize the commonalities you have, you don't realize how many things you can learn from that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

And so I really enjoyed the way you spoke about like uh organically breaking the stigma of lawyers and how truthful that is. There might be lawyers in the market that don't pour into the community, but there are so many that do.

Comfort Zones And Shedding Old Skin

SPEAKER_00 26:15

You do it out of heart, you do it out of obligation. But I will tell you this. All right. I I don't I think that when you go looking for business, you come across as very cheesy and inauthentic and all that stuff, right? But the more hands you shake, the more money you make. The more, the more babies you kiss, the less asses you have to kiss. Right? And and when I told Christian this the other day, my buddy Christian Wilfer, when I told him about my presentation, that's what he replied with. More more hands you shake, the more money you make, the more babies you kiss, the more the less asses you have to kiss. I say, Christian, that's good. I'm gonna steal that. And and it's true, like you don't go in there looking for business, but it is a byproduct once you put your heart out there and your time and your energy and your effort out there. Correct. People see who you are and they will trust you and they will want to do business with you.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

Yes. Especially seeing your presence on social media and how you you pour into the public with so much advice and and seeing what you do for the community digitally and then on the ground floor, it just further solidifies that you are a good human being and a great attorney.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

Well, I I don't think I probably post half of what we do out there, right? And and that's okay, right? Because I don't do it for that. I don't do it for the likes and the and the follows. I do it because I genuinely want to do it. And I think if I had to go back to when I was look, I I I come from an unbelievable family of of kind-hearted people, all right. And I'm I'm blessed for that. My family is just rock solid people who genuinely care. But if I went back to 24-year-old Chaz and I said, what what would be what would be most surprising you know, if you can if you can see yourself at almost 42 years old, what would be the most surprising? I wouldn't believe that I would have as much compassion and care and charity at the top of my list. Wow. You know, I I I just that is unexpected that I have a deep desire to be a mentor to people and to help people and to help them reach their goals. I n I I guess I've always had a coach's heart, maybe, but it is I I think I do a lot more than I ever thought I would do. And and it's effortless, it's easy. I don't think about it. It just it's what I'm called to do. And I think that would be unexpected if I talk to the 24-year-old chaz. Wow. And you've experienced that, right? I mean, you've absolutely you've experienced the mentorship. You can't you can't be around me without getting four different lessons. Ladies, why you want to Thailand again? How long? How you need to keep that momentum going, brother?

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Yeah. Every conversation we have, it it further benefits me.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Uh part of it is because I'm jealous that you get to go on a two-week trip to Thailand, right? But no, it's I'm I'm picking on you, but it's true. I mean, I I want you to succeed in the in the worst way. I'm good. I I am good. I am happy where I am. I know my calling. I know that my family will be taken care of. I want to build others up.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Yeah. And I've always felt that since the day I met you. It's been true every single time and grown to be even more truthful. Yep. You're the congruence king. You you get it all done.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

I try. I try. It's not always perfect, but I try.

Gratitude, Mentorship, And Closing

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Uh, as you were sending me photos and videos of your trip, uh, every single time I I looked at them, it put such a large smile on my face, 8,000 miles away. I it it made me so pleased to see you surrounded by great people and and and being exposed to a different culture and and different types of people. And I knew that it would benefit you greatly, and uh it seemed like it did. And and I think you also gave a great impression to others, and uh they they took away so much from your presentation.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

I hope so. I just got to fix my posture next time. Likewise, right? Um closing the episode, Al Dunya. Thank you for invite if you're listening to this, thank you for inviting me. I had a wonderful time. I met so many people. Uh Fuad is an awesome, awesome dude too. Uh I'm that what a pleasure. And all the great people that I met along the way if you're listening. I sincerely uh enjoyed meeting you and reach out to me any anything you need. I hope you enjoy the episode. Uh stick around. We got plenty more to come.