Law Have Mercy!

Betting vs. Investing: Navigating the Emotional Highs and Financial Realities with AJ Toce

• Chaz Roberts • Season 4 • Episode 51

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Ever wondered if sports betting could be as financially beneficial as traditional investing? Join us for an eye-opening discussion with AJ Tocw, a lawyer and financial planner, as we explore the emotional allure and financial pitfalls of sports betting, lotteries, and stock options. Hear the tale of Dave Portnoy's $300,000 sports bet loss and the staggering $120 billion wagered by Americans in 2023. This chapter is a must-listen for anyone enticed by the instant gratification of betting but seeking a reliable strategy for financial growth.

Get ready for a fun and educational segment where we compare McDonald's and Chipotle stocks to make investing relatable for younger audiences. We'll break down McDonald's consistent growth and global presence alongside Chipotle's rapid expansion and innovative fast-casual dining approach. By examining market dynamics, pricing power, and leadership changes, we illustrate how these factors can impact stock value and guide investment decisions. It's an engaging way to teach the next generation about the exciting world of stocks.

Finally, we unpack various investment strategies for long-term growth, emphasizing the benefits of index funds, ETF funds, real estate, and gold. Discover practical advice on managing debt, optimizing 401k plans, and the historical performance of index funds with an average annual return of around 9.6%. We also explore the pros and cons of different financial products, highlighting the importance of a tailored approach to financial planning. From actionable insights to real-world examples, this episode is packed with valuable information to help you navigate the complexities of financial planning and investing.

You can watch most full episodes of Law Have Mercy on YouTube!

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This show is co-produced by Carter Simoneaux of AcadianaCasts Network, Chaz H. Roberts of Chaz Roberts Law and Kayli Guidry Bonin of Beau The Agency, and Laith Alferahin.

Speaker 1:

If you really want to make money, not just in the next six months or next year, but let's talk about your lifetime and how you want to see your net worth grow over your lifetime. It's pretty clear that sports betting, lottery, buying options, betting on stocks those are the things that give you the instant gratification. They make you feel like you give you action. They get you emotional. Good investing. If you want to make money, put your emotions aside.

Speaker 2:

Hey, it's Chaz back with another episode of Law have Mercy. I'm bringing back another good friend of mine, a returning guest, aj Toss. He is a lawyer, a financial planner, a father, a husband, a recent transplant to the North Shore of Louisiana and he is the owner of Toss Financial. Carter's giving me the what's up because he's also a North Shore guy. What's up, aj?

Speaker 1:

Hey, dude, it's great to be back.

Speaker 2:

Man, you braved all that rain to come here sit with little old me.

Speaker 1:

I did. Yeah, I made sure I got up early and avoided the Baton Rouge traffic.

Speaker 2:

Well, I've had a lot of people that have called me and texted me and inquired on your services, and I think a large part of that is because of the podcast we put down last time. Yeah, that's great to hear. Yeah, man, I mean, have you seen any action since the podcast?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I was here in February 23. I would love to say I could contribute it to this podcast. I don't know if these people saw the podcast. This is an older couple, but I did get my largest client like a month after.

Speaker 2:

That's awesome, man.

Speaker 1:

Well, maybe it's several minutes, I don't know.

Speaker 2:

There's no such thing as bad attention. Right, that's right. Just put it out there. And what was crazy we spent? It was the old setup. We had two chairs and we spent an hour hour 15 minutes together and it was so technical, but there were so many nuggets in there.

Speaker 2:

This time I'm going to get straight to the point. Later on I'm going to ask you how do we make money? How do my listeners make money? How do my clients make money with their money that they recover? I want to get into all that. If you're up to it yes, I'm up to it. Awesome. I want to talk about last night. There was the opening of the NFL kickoff season. The Ravens and the Chiefs played and there was Dave Portnoy from Barstool Sports. We all know Dave Portnoy from Barstool Sports. We all know Dave Portnoy. He made a $300,000 bet on the Ravens to win outright and on the last second the guy scored a touchdown and it was reviewed and it was overturned because his toe, like a centimeter, was touching the line and so he loses $300,000. Was touching the line and so he loses $300,000. Is sports betting a good way to spend your money?

Speaker 1:

Well, I think inherently, everybody knows the answer is no. People go to varying degrees. People do like to brag about their wins in sports betting. It's something that gets you emotional and hype and you know investing I'm not. I know I'm not going to double my money overnight, literally overnight. So it's not as exciting as something like you just described. It's the last second of the game, the fourth quarter. He's out by just an inch. Oh my gosh, portnoy almost cashed in, but Portnoy works for DraftKings, so that $300,000, I bet he made a lot more than that from DraftKings directly for getting so many eyeballs on the sport.

Speaker 2:

What a great season opener. Huh yeah, absolutely. We're talking about it right now, but I'm confused. You're saying that you can double your money overnight. Well, I see all kinds of TikTok and Instagram accounts. These guys are killing it. Latham was just telling us his friend has not lost man. That's amazing.

Speaker 1:

You know the rules of evidence, right? Yeah, I do. If it's not acceptable evidence in court, then I'm not accepting it to believe something or not? I actually, right before I came in here, I was just waiting in the lobby browsing Instagram and the first thing that pops up it's not even a gambling account, it's a only in day. They show like crazy stuff that happens in Miami and it was a paid partnership and said 19 year old sports gambler or sports better. They probably don't say gambler, you know, wins, buys his mom a $2 million house or whatever you know. And that's meant to lead you to believe that there are certain people out there who can find an edge and consistently win and sort of make a career out of gambling on sports, which is actually. We have enough data out there that we know that that's actually probably not possible. I mean, there may be an outlier somewhere here and there who can find a very specific niche and be very disciplined, but you're not going to do that.

Speaker 2:

Do you think I mean? What is the financial impact of sports betting?

Speaker 1:

now it's gotten huge. So you know they had this whole Supreme Court battle to legalize it and state, you know, to let the states decide. And many states are legalizing it. And in 2023, americans bet $120 billion on sports.

Speaker 2:

With a.

Speaker 1:

B With a B. Yeah, that's a lot of money and you could now. So, now that these companies have come public companies like DraftKings they have to show their data every 90 days. So now we all get an insight to kind of what's going on behind the scenes with the business. So Americans bet $120 billion.

Speaker 1:

Sports betting companies made about $11 billion Wow. Sports betting companies made about $11 billion Wow, which is pretty much in line with you think a bookie wants to get equal bets on both sides. Right, and both you're paying a 10% VIG, you're paying. Whoever loses pays the 10% VIG. But if I have equal bets on both sides, then I'm guaranteed to make 10% on whatever volume I'm bringing in.

Speaker 1:

So we used to have these regional bookies. You'd go to your boy who only deals with people in South Louisiana. So, like when everybody wants to bet on the Saints or LSU, you actually have to pay more of a vig than somebody else would. But now we have the and bookies would have to talk to each other to lay off bets on one another so that they could all try to equalize.

Speaker 1:

Now you have a public company that's operating themselves in every state and so they can within themselves, they have an equalized book and they're just printing money. All they do is made an app that you can go on and all they have to do is keep track of the bets and basic financial services to make it easy to get money in and out A lot more money coming in than out, obviously, but the thing is, if they they're making 11 billion dollars, then obviously, on the whole, bettors are losing 11 billion dollars, a little bit more maybe yeah and that, and they spent a bunch of money on advertising too, so they probably their, their cut was probably a lot more than that yeah, and you know what's happening now is the parlays.

Speaker 1:

They're making a killing on parlays. Why are parlays bad bets? So you can kind of intuitively know what the odds might be with Baltimore or Kansas City. You can kind of tell one might be more likely to win than another.

Speaker 2:

You understand why there's a three-point spread.

Speaker 1:

You understand why there's a three point spread. You understand why there's a three point spread, but when it comes to parlays, you're looking at three, four, five, even uh, different events that all have to hit, and so you need to know the math on what. What are the odds of all those things happening together, Cause even if one misses you, you lose the whole thing.

Speaker 2:

I was at the golf course the other day and this kid he's 24 years old, he's, he sits at our table and he says, gentlemen, are you guys sports betters? And we're like no, he's like I don't care. This is the surest win of all time. It's a three leg parlay. The first one is X, the second one is B, the third one C. The first leg was Florida state winning.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And he lost mightily on that one. He didn't even make it to the second leg and this kid thought that he had the surest bet of a lifetime. Put all the money on it. Yeah, I mean, it's just, there's two. What you're saying is the inherent odds of one thing is difficult in and of itself, but when you add two other layers it's nearly impossible.

Speaker 1:

The math gets a lot more. The math gets a lot more. The math gets more complex than you can just kind of figure intuitively in your head. You actually have to to pull out a calculator does the house win more on parlays? Yeah, yeah, they way more, way, way. It's.

Speaker 2:

It's like the innovation that has led to draft king stock being up 250 so the the traditional bet head up would be like the roulette wheel, where it's black or red and there's a little chance that you get neither.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, there's two greens.

Speaker 2:

There's two greens and then on this one on the parlays. It's more like a slot machine.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, actually that's a great way to put it, because, yeah, the slot machine. You don't really know what the odds are, you just know that I can bet a little bit and get a lot, and I like that idea.

Speaker 2:

So what? What the sports better would tell you, because you invest in stocks and say, well, you're betting on companies. What's the difference?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and you know that's a great question. I would say there are things that are knowable and there are things that are not knowable. And if you're betting on something that's not knowable, then you're gambling. But every once in a while and, to be clear, most people who are buying stocks are also gambling because they don't know what's going to happen with this company. They have no particular insights, they have no expertise in whatever business they're buying.

Speaker 1:

What do I know about NVIDIA actually? I mean, I know the narratives around it. Do I know how and I've actually studied this a good bit do I know how exactly they build these chips and why they're worth 20 grand a piece? Not really. I don't know what the competitive landscape is. I don't know. I know it's like the hottest place to be. We have this whole thing called the CHIPS Act where the government is paying people to build out semiconductor capacity.

Speaker 1:

But even knowing all that stuff, like I've never worked in semiconductor, I have no reason to have an insight into whether or not NVIDIA is worth $3 trillion. You know, but my instincts tell me that seems expensive. I can't justify why it should be worth that much, so I stay away from it. Other people are only looking at a price on a screen. They watch it squiggle this way, squiggle that way, and they fool themselves into thinking that you can gain important insight, something that is knowable and important. But they want to believe it, and so they. They don't have that. They don't. They don't scrutinize enough. They don't have that. They don't scrutinize enough. They don't have the skills to look at rules of evidence and know that something is probably maybe not false, but just you don't know that for sure.

Speaker 2:

But you're also saying that you know something that the rest of the market doesn't know, right, because the current market thinks it's worth $106 today. Yeah, so that's all knowing, all believing, all investing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so there's a concept called efficient market hypothesis, which people argue about a lot over whether the market's efficient or not, which means that most prices are accurate based on everything that we currently know. Taking all the information we currently know, investors are very smart and sophisticated. What do you know that goldman sachs doesn't already know about a certain stock right? So all of the information is already. We call it, it's priced in. That's kind of the lingo, that's priced in. Oh, you think NVIDIA is going to move because they posted good earnings?

Speaker 1:

It moved two weeks ago because it's going to post good earnings.

Speaker 2:

It's already priced in the rate cuts that are coming up or not coming up or whatever. It's already priced in.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. So you need to find something that's not priced in, which is very hard to find, and so markets are efficient. And the thing, the reason they still move a lot is because nobody knows. No matter how many PhDs you hire, how much data you get, no one knows the future. And so we're all kind of guessing. Even though we know so much, you just can't predict the future.

Speaker 2:

Wouldn't? Another difference between sports betting and betting on stocks let's just call it another ugly term betting on stocks is that you actually own an asset versus a speculation.

Speaker 1:

It's a contract really with a determinable outcome, and so you're kind of buying an option. It's a contract that gives you the right to take in money if a certain event happens. When you buy a stock, you have a real ownership of an actual business. The business could do well, it could do poor, the stock could do well or poor, independent of how the business does. But you actually own something that's real. It's a claim on tangible assets and real cash flows and real profits that you are legally entitled to.

Speaker 2:

It's a microscopic ownership of the entire business.

Speaker 1:

Correct, yeah, and so when I think about buying a stock, I'm thinking about whether I would want to own this entire business, and then you know, I get you cut that into a point oh, one percent of what I can afford of this business, but it's the same thing. You should think about it like an owner, because that's literally what you're doing You're buying a piece of a business.

Speaker 2:

All right. So I'm like an owner, because that's literally what you're doing you're buying a piece of a business. All right, so I'm gonna. I was explaining stocks to my kids, all right, and I was saying that, like if we buy a disney stock, we own a microscopic piece of the trash can and of the mickey mouse costume and the roller coaster and disney plus and everything else. And they thought that was a cool concept. So I made them each pick a stock and one pick mcdonald's and one pick chipotle. So so they gave me their responses, right. One was like well, this one has great business, this one maybe has more opportunity. Then we looked at the price of the particular return. Give me your best response of why you should pick McDonald's over Chipotle or Chipotle over McDonald's.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, okay, good, no, I love that you're doing this with your kids, because it's going to make them smart in ways that school will not, and uh, so this is some of the most important things you can teach a kid, cause, as you know, money, money rules, that cash rules everything around me.

Speaker 2:

And I like hearing, I always enjoy hearing your analysis of stocks because I learn about the businesses and I learn about what things you're looking at when you're thinking about the business, both in actual numbers and like your emotional gut feeling and head feeling about where the future will go. So tell me why McDonald's or Chipotle or either.

Speaker 1:

Okay, I have to preface that by saying I'm not an expert in casual dining, so I can have my opinion. But if you were to voir dire me as an expert in this area, I would not qualify in court as an expert in McDonald's or Chipotle, but I have followed them. Actually we, uh, my, my wife's grandfather bought her a McDonald's stock when she was a kid few hundred bucks or whatever, and over I don't know 20 years or so it grew into like ten thousand dollars, and so when we get, when we got married, we cashed that out and got her a new car down payment, a new car with it wow, so I do like mcdonald's for that reason good, well, I'm just testing, I'm cold calling.

Speaker 2:

I didn't even tell you about this. So yeah, I'm interested um, so chipotle, let's.

Speaker 1:

Let's talk about Chipotle, so fast-growing, famously owned by Bill Ackman, a big time, very successful, controversial, very successful investor. When you look at the business of Chipotle and you look year over year, every single year they're making a bunch more money than they made the year before and a business like that earns a premium because you start to think, well, shoot, if I mean if they keep growing at 20% a year, I mean this, this thing is going to be massive.

Speaker 2:

But that's priced in too, though, right.

Speaker 1:

Well, it's the, the, the consensus, expectation is priced in. So what most people think is going to happen usually is what happens and that's priced in, but sometimes that's not what happens. So remember, do you remember, the E coli outbreak with Chipotle? Yes, so that was like a generational opportunity to buy a great growing business because of a short-term headwind. So another thing I would say with Chipotle versus McDonald's, what are they currently valued at? I can tell you right now McDonald's is about $120 billion company. I think Chipotle is similar, although I actually don't. I don't really have a clue. Also, chipotle just lost its CEO. The CEO of Chipotle grew the crap out of that company, put together a brilliant plan and executed the plan and that's why it grew so much. And now Starbucks is struggling like crazy their stock's way down and they just poached Chipotle CEO to come in and fix Starbucks for him.

Speaker 2:

What happened to those two stocks when the CEO left?

Speaker 1:

Starbucks popped and Chipotle dropped. Why is?

Speaker 2:

that so important?

Speaker 1:

Because one of the most, because a company is just a group of people and you need leadership and vision and there's just, there's so few people who are capable of being a great CEO. When you lose your CEO, that's, that's not good. When you gain a CEO who's just coming off of like world series champion style success, it's like, oh man, how can I not bet on this stock? So you have Chipotle, which obviously so. Chipotle is more risky than McDonald's because it's newer, it's less. I mean, we all know McDonald's. There's a McDonald's every 10 feet, you know. And when you look at the numbers, mcdonald's continues to make money and grow, and grow, and grow. They're growing at a much slower rate, but it's consistent, year in, year out, always growing, always improving, the menu's, getting better. They're able to charge more and more. Remember, dude, when we were kids, you could get a McDonald's happy meal for like $4. You can't get a meal for less than $10 at McDonald's on anything. It's like actually not as cheap as it used to be. So they have incredible pricing power.

Speaker 2:

And so another thing at Chipotle, like they had a scandal about underserving their plates or reducing their portion size.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, People would go and do their own experiments and weigh their plates and yeah, it became a big deal portion size.

Speaker 2:

And that could turn some customers off. That could affect stock price.

Speaker 1:

It did. Yeah, it turned people off, um, but what? The CEO bet on the trend of people wanting higher quality food, and he bet on um creating a fast food restaurant that didn't feel like you're eating fast food, and that turned out to be a very good idea.

Speaker 2:

And and on. As we're comparing Chipotle to McDonald's, mcdonald's is facing the headwinds of the Zympic population. It's eating less. They're facing more scrutiny on the food and the food quality.

Speaker 1:

That's been for a long time, but it's coming to a head even more now. I mean, I remember when I was a little kid we just saw there's rumors in school like, yeah, you know, taco Bell, they actually use dog meat. You know, like they've never had the image of being healthy food. But over time, well, americans are like really unhealthy in a lot of ways, like a lot of the population has a problem, health problems caused by what they eat, and so that's come to a head and that's partly why McDonald's can charge more is because they up the quality of their ingredients, supposedly. I still see the videos online of like the pink sludge and like this is what you're eating at McDonald's.

Speaker 2:

But they both, they both provide a valuable service, give me some some of the qualities of McDonald's that you that you would consider in purchasing the stock.

Speaker 1:

Good qualities that I like about McDonald's yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so From an investor standpoint.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So first of all, they have an obvious competitive advantage they have all the prime real estate locations. They have-.

Speaker 2:

Don't they own the real estate too?

Speaker 1:

Yeah so, they're a huge real estate company. They own the real estate too. Yeah, so they they. They're a huge real estate company, they own the real estate. They lease it to the franchisees. Um, the the ability to fill your drive through with not your marketing, but my, the franchisor. I do all the marketing. I'm the one who gets the butts in the seats at your restaurant. All you have to do is operate the place. So I'm making the money off the real estate, I'm making the franchise fees and there's really no um, I find it highly unlikely that people are going to abandon McDonald's anytime soon. They have, they have staying power, they have a share of mind.

Speaker 2:

So they're one of the biggest real estate companies in the world. Real estate companies in the world. They have a recognizable brand and they're they're seem to adjust well to new movements right, yeah, they've.

Speaker 1:

They've shown time and time again their ability to pivot and stay with. Stay with where their customers want to go.

Speaker 2:

And so what would you buy? Chipotle McDonald's if you had to choose, if you, if you had to choose, if you if you had.

Speaker 1:

That comes down to my personality and, uh, I, I see chipotle as the better product. Um, you eat a bunch of chipotle. You're getting. You're getting good food. You eat a bunch of mcdonald's you're sitting on the couch.

Speaker 2:

It's not?

Speaker 1:

it's not great. Yeah, it's just sweat and sodium and um, chipotle is more expensive, which I, to be like, I only wanted to buy the cheap, undervalue. I wanted to go dumpster diving and find you know something that's actually worth five bucks, that I could buy for a dollar because no one else wanted it, something like that. But now I actually think high quality staying power, if I'm, I'm thinking decades out. When I think decades out, I'm like I'm pretty freaking sure McDonald's is going to be there. I don't know if Chipotle will be there or not, that's less certain, but I think the bigger opportunity lies in Chipotle. And so, as a young, enterprising investor, I would say I'm going to take a swing here. But if you stay back and buy McDonald's instead, no sweat, go on vacation, chill, you know it's going to be fine and you're going to get your little dividend and you're never, you're not going to make a ton of money, although you, you always could you never know.

Speaker 2:

So McDonald's pays a dividend, chipotle does not. I don't think Chipotle pays a dividend.

Speaker 1:

That's another um sort of aspect of like are you? Are you in high growth mode? If there's a lot of growth to be had, I'm going to keep all the money and reinvest it in the business. That's why you own my stock, not so I could just hand you your money back right. Then there's other type of companies that are more mature, more stable. You can depend on them and you can rely on it for a little bit of income.

Speaker 2:

At this stage of my career, where I have a good income, I'm not at the retirement age. Would you recommend that I have dividend stocks, or would you recommend that I have growth stocks?

Speaker 1:

Dividends are forced taxation. You don't get a choice. If you own a stock that pays a dividend, you're going to receive the dividend. You're going to receive a tax bill for it. All else being equal, I would rather not have the dividend, because I don't need the income. I'm not even trying to spend it. All I do is reinvest the dividend back into that same stock anyway. So it's just forcing me to pay a tax that I probably don't want to pay.

Speaker 2:

And you can maybe even give that share to your kid or grandkid one day and probably get around some of the taxation.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, by the time we die, I don't know what things are going to look like, but for now, yeah, you inherit the basis. Stepped up basis. Yeah, that's the big thing. If I give you that stock while I'm still alive, you have to pay tax on the gains based based on you know what you have. My basis put it that way. But if I wait until I die and then you receive it your, your tax liability goes to zero.

Speaker 2:

I bought some stock for my kids. I mean, I own it so I could invent, eventually give it to them when I pass. But meta, I think, is going to be around for a long time and Amazon, those are the ones that I, that I picked out for them.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and and look those are. So those are expensive. You know, it's not about, it's not just about whether it'd be around, it's how much do you have to pay for them? They're expensive stocks, but they were expensive eight years ago and they're, you know, four times the price they were back then. Yeah, so it's all relative to what are they going to do in the future.

Speaker 2:

I want to Go ahead.

Speaker 1:

No, I was going to say people hate on Mark Zuckerberg because of his AI, his meta vision. The stock dropped 75%. It's incredible. And then it bounced right back. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I just buy more. Every time it dips, I just buy more.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So if you believe in Zuckerberg's vision, then, yeah, it's probably a good stock to buy.

Speaker 2:

And they have a lot of cash. So much cash, and he owns all the attention of the world between Facebook and Instagram. Yeah, and then he stockpiled NVIDIA chips too, so he's going to have a leg up on AI.

Speaker 1:

They actually have a whole open source version of ChatGPT called Llama. You can build a business off of it and run llama for free, um, or probably have to pay at a certain volume. So that's another way that they can make money off of AI is just by hosting the chat GPT um competitor, I guess.

Speaker 2:

So now we see how smart you are, so I want to shift gears and talk about. I want our listeners to get a lot of value, and our viewers. How do we make money? How do we make money with our money?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. Well, you got to have the money to put up in the first place. So it all comes down to discipline and temperament If you really want to make money, not just in the next six months or next year, but let's talk about your lifetime and how you want to see your net worth grow over your lifetime. It's pretty clear that sports betting, lottery, buying options, betting on stocks those are the things that give you the instant gratification. They make you feel like you give you action. They get you emotional Good investing If you want to make money, emotional good investing. If you want to make money, put your emotions aside. Do the right, prudent thing for you. Have a plan, come get with an expert. Just like you wouldn't represent yourself in court, you don't. You don't want to architect your own financial plan because it's complex and it's just wrought with people trying to steer you the wrong way, to try and take more from you than they're than they're providing in value to you.

Speaker 2:

And as a financial advisor let's say that they've checked all the boxes and paid off debt and that kind of thing and they have money that they want to grow what do you typically and I know everyone has different risk portfolio on that but what are the tools that you use to put the money to grow risk?

Speaker 1:

portfolio on that. But what are the tools that you use to put the money to grow? So the first thing that comes to mind is the most obvious thing, which is an index fund. It was invented by Jack Bogle, who founded Vanguard, and the reason Vanguard is massive is because they created the index fund, which in the beginning was dubbed Bogle's folly. Everybody in the industry hated the idea because it was passive. It was not. Hey, I need to hire somebody who knows all what's going to happen in the market and what's the right stock, and blah, blah, blah. It's hey, why don't we just bet on the American economy in general? I mean, we're kind of killing the game here and I don't want to do all this research to figure out what's the next Amazon or the next Apple, I just want to own America as a whole. I said this last time you don't search for the needle in the haystack, you just buy the whole haystack, because you know if you own American business, you're going to own the next Apple and the next Amazon.

Speaker 2:

And what we've found is that and the current Apple and Amazon.

Speaker 1:

And you own the current Apple and Amazon, which people keep saying, oh, they're going to turn soon, oh, they're overvalued. And so there's people who say, oh, you can't just buy the S&P 500. 30% of it is seven stocks, and when those go down, what's going to happen? Well, it's not the first time that there's been concentration at the top, and if you listen to those people five years ago, they're screaming just as loud then as they are now. You missed out on the biggest growth opportunities of our generation because those things just kept going up. You didn't want to bet against those stocks.

Speaker 2:

And in the ETFs you can also own every stock right. It's not just American company, it's all companies.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So I mean yeah. So if you really wanted to listen to modern portfolio theory which I do not subscribe to, even though that's every advisor goes by modern portfolio theory they would say, yeah, you need to have some international diversification. You need some international bonds, some international equities, some emerging market stuff.

Speaker 2:

You might need some commodities like gold and that's, to diversify your portfolio so that, no matter what happens, you're always going to be kind of covered in on the uptrend.

Speaker 1:

Yes, but there's a question as to how much diversification does one really need and at what point does diversification no longer provide any added benefit? So if you own the S&P 500, that's 500 companies that operate all over the world One company that comes to mind is Airbnb. I believe they make more money overseas than they do in America. It's close, but I think they might book more overseas in America. So you're already internationally diversified and if you buy the international stocks, you're buying people who are competing with the American companies, and I don't want to compete against America. I want to be on Team America.

Speaker 2:

Right, like Boeing is sending planes all around the world. Yeah, their customers are every country.

Speaker 1:

Terrible company, terrible stock, terrible company. But yeah, they're still making money and they're still the go-to. I never thought of it that way still the go-to?

Speaker 2:

um, I never thought of it that way. Like even buying american companies, you're inherently gonna diversify throughout the world because they sell products all over the world yeah, people don't understand the scale of america business, american business.

Speaker 1:

We're 25 of the world's gdp, with four and a half percent of the world's population. Wow, so we're. We're making way more than china, way more than China, way more than India. They each have a billion people. We have 300 million, 350 million, and we're just crushing. 80% of all global trade is done in us dollars. Um so, yeah, people just underestimate the scale of like how much America is dominating the world.

Speaker 2:

I think California is like bigger than most countries.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it'd be like a top 10 GDP in the world, maybe more, maybe higher, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So if you tell so, let's walk through it. We explain what index funds are. So people bring you money. Let's just say you went into, they took their money, took 10 grand, 20 grand, 30 grand, put it into index funds. What happens with that money over time?

Speaker 1:

Well, you can look at history and get a pretty good feel for what will probably happen. If you look at over the last hundred years, we've grown by anywhere from eight to 12%. The dead number is 9.62% average rate of return. Now it's always changing, but it's somewhere around 9.6% over the last 100 years. That's purely like the index how much the index has grown. Investing isn't totally free, so you're not going to make 9.6%. You'll make a little bit less, probably, or the market could do 6% over the next 100 years. It could do 12%. So you're not going to make 9.6. You'll make a little bit less, probably, or the market could do 6% over the next 100 years. It could do 12%. But the fact remains that there won't be a better alternative.

Speaker 2:

Okay. So last time you were on the podcast, we talked about, hey, I have money, but we're at all-time highs which were all-time highs at the time and I said, aj, we've got the Ukraine war. I don't know if we even had that clip handy, but we have the Ukraine war. We have all these things that are going on. Rates are super high. Why should I invest? Now? It seems like you can only go down. Do you remember what happened from?

Speaker 1:

that podcast. Yeah, that was February 2023. And actually we weren't at all-time highs no-transcript. If it was, if it was a house in in a neighborhood that you were familiar with and you were looking at the house and it was 400 grand. And then the you know, the next year you're looking in the house is only it's valued at 300 grand. And you look around, you know it's the same house. Nothing, nothing crazy happened. It's the same house. You would think that that's a deal, a discount. You'd want to buy that, but when it comes to stocks or the stock market, you don't actually know what it is you're owning and so you don't have an insight. You can't value it for yourself, so you have to take the opinion of the market or whoever you're listening to on YouTube. When people are optimistic about stocks, they're seen as naive, and when people are pessimistic, they're seen as smart. So there's all kinds of the bears. We call them, or perma bears.

Speaker 2:

And so I think the people to take your analogy, steph I think people are saying okay, I think it's still a nice house, 300, but it might go to 270. My belt is snatch it up at 270 and they're waiting?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, maybe, but then somebody comes in and buys it for 305 and for the rest of your life. You're kicking yourself because you tried to squeeze an extra 30 grand out of an obviously good opportunity. You got greedy, you couldn't just accept the a hundred grand, you needed to get 130, and now somebody else scooped it up.

Speaker 2:

Okay, and so then you buy, you buy those. So what happened? Okay, we, we, we were at that number, whatever the market was. If you had placed money into the market when we aired the podcast and you told everyone you need to buy index funds, you need to buy stocks. Now I bought some. Uh, what happened since then?

Speaker 1:

So since that day I was here, the market's up 40%. It's down today, maybe it's 38%, now 40%, 40%.

Speaker 2:

So if you listen to the podcast and you bought stock, you would be up on average 40%.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, by the way, when I said that I came on here, and I came on here boldly, standing on my own knowledge.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and I was a little skeptical my own expertise, okay.

Speaker 1:

At the same time, I'm saying you should be buying stocks. Economists were saying there is 100% chance of recession. Yeah, okay, yes, and that's what makes for good prices. People get scared out of it. Another thing we have to understand is time horizon Different people with different time horizons talking over one another. If the 65-year-old is scared and selling stocks, that doesn't mean the 30-year-old needs to follow suit because he doesn't have time to see the better market. I got 30 years. What am I worried about happening next year?

Speaker 2:

Well, look, man, you're a bull. And you were like we're down 20%. Maybe that was an easy call, because even if you'd only did 20%, we'd have been breakeven. Now we're 40% up. We're down 20%. Maybe that was an easy call, because even if you had only did 20%, we'd have been break even. Now we're 40% up. We're at all-time highs, or damn near all-time highs. Do you still invest?

Speaker 1:

Statistics say that the best time to put your money in the market is right now. It's so hard. It's not about time in the market, chaz. It's about time in the market. If you want me to guess how much money you made, I ask you how long have you been invested and how many trades have you made in that time? If you tell me I've been invested 25 years and I made one trade, and that was when I bought the S&P I know you're making good money, more money than anybody who probably unless they got lucky, of course more money than anybody who tried to do something more complicated. You spent 25 years hanging out, playing golf, spending time with your family. Somebody else is jumping in and out of the market every year and paying advisors and incurring taxes, and they didn't do half as well as you did.

Speaker 2:

So the more successful people are actually the most passive.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean there's a reason why all the the like vanguard and blackrock manage like 85 percent of the world's money because they charged the lease. They're passive. It's all about buying the s and p like blackrock has spy and they also own I shares. Vanguard has voo, which is the number one fund. So that's, there may not be a lot of people buying them, but there are a lot of dollars going into them.

Speaker 2:

If I had a $10,000, would you recommend that I buy 10,000 of VOO tomorrow, or would you recommend that I buy 1000 in the next week, 1000, and then the following week or next month drip it in? Do you have an?

Speaker 1:

opinion on that? Yeah, there's tons of studies on it. It's not about opinion, it's about just the facts of. You can backtest this and find which strategy works best. Now, the future is only going to play out one way, and we don't know what that way is. So there's definitely a future where dripping it in was the better idea, but what's more likely is that the market's going to go up over that time. It's always more likely that the market's going to go up.

Speaker 2:

It's depending on the time horizon.

Speaker 1:

Well, the longer time horizon, yeah, like, if you got 10, 12, 15 years, you got 20 years. You're just definitely going to go up. Um, people might think that that sounds optimistically naive, but it's based on the fact that humans will keep achieving things. They're not going to stop.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and it's something I think Tony Robbins talks about. This is like if you missed a few, the handful of days where the market shot up substantially your, your average return is like substantially lower. Yeah, just a handful of days.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, if you miss like the top five days of the year, you lose like all the returns of the year.

Speaker 2:

Okay, and give me your one-minute spiel about why you would recommend that pool of money. We talked about making people money, and the best thing that you've seen in your entire career is ETF funds, specifically some type of S&P. Why is that, in a one-minute, better than real estate, crypto, gold or cash?

Speaker 1:

Okay, a few different categories of assets there. Some of those that you just said are productive assets, some are non-productive assets. All of those things have a cost associated with them when you go to buy real estate. Nar got sued, but still you're paying 5% or 6% to the brokerage. You got to pay a title attorney, you got to pay the tax man, you got to pay the insurance company. Just go down the list.

Speaker 2:

Air condition maintenance tax.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, home Depot's getting paid, everybody's getting paid, and that's why everyone tells you it's a great idea to buy real estate because of what it can do for them. Imagine that, and that's why everyone tells you it's a great idea to buy real estate because of what it can do for them. Imagine that. But there's a lot of costs associated with that. Not that you can't make money Definitely can make money in real estate but there's more costs and it takes time and it takes your time and to me that's the biggest cost.

Speaker 1:

I don't play around with wasting my time doing things that aren't going to be productive to me while I have three kids at home that want to see daddy Got it. Gold. Okay, Gold is a nonproductive asset. It doesn't do anything. It has some value, but on the whole, look at a long, long time Like it's hard to say because right now gold's up a bunch, so it seems like gold's a great investment. I should have bought some gold, but zoom out and look at what gold does. Since world war, two gold's gone from you know. Let's say, if you put 10 grand in gold, you'd have 400 K. Now if you put it in in the top 500 American corporations, you've got more like $50 million. So no comparison and cash.

Speaker 2:

Why don't I just keep it in my bank account? I know it's safe right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah well, you're not going to be able to buy as much stuff next year as you will this year. With that cash Right now especially if you'd put cash in the bank five years ago you can only buy about half as much stuff. But you could also put it in a money market and make 5% with no risk and at least keep up with inflation.

Speaker 2:

I want to tell you thank you, because you mentioned to me the VMFXX Laith. How many times have I told that to clients? I was like, look, I think you need to invest this money, but if you do nothing else, create a Vanguard account and put it all in VMFXX, which is where they actually hold your money. It's not an investment zero risk where they hold your money. The settlement, the quote unquote settlement fund hey, pun intended is paying 5.29% interest.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it varies slightly from month to month because it's all based on what the Federal Reserve says interest rates are. So, federal Reserve, right now interest rates are five and a quarter to five and a half percent and that is what Fed member banks have to pay to the Fed to borrow money. So anyone who wants to borrow from the bank, the bank's got to make a spread. You got to get a little bit higher than that, but with the money market fund it's it's literally like it's an overnight pool of liquidity that people can take from and put back in order to make things fun. You don't want a liquidity crunch you know.

Speaker 2:

But even if you don't open a Vanguard account or I think Fidelity has an account too Any brokerage account. Any brokerage account. Robinhood probably plays the same you. You should at least call your bank and have them move the cash into some type of higher interest.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, some kind of higher. Yeah, I mean even a CD. I hate CD. I shouldn't use the word hate. I don't like CDs because you have to lock your money up. Meanwhile, you could buy a money market fund, get the same rate, maybe even a little higher rate, and take it out whenever you want. Put as much in whenever you want, get the same rate, maybe even a little higher rate, and take it out whenever you want, and put as much in whenever you want.

Speaker 2:

Two days later, that money's in your account.

Speaker 1:

Two days later you could pull it out again. If you want CDs, lock you in and you don't. You're not getting paid enough for the lack of liquidity.

Speaker 2:

They're locked up, you can't access them and there's 12 month, 18 month, two year, et cetera. I've had some clients that have bought CDs. It got it. It got the money out of their hands, which you see as a problem. They saw it as security right. They're less likely to spend it and at least they're getting some type of return.

Speaker 1:

That's true too. That's why I shouldn't say I hate. There are a couple of financial products that I do actually hate. Cds aren't one of them, though.

Speaker 2:

And then what was the end? The cash. Okay, we talked about cash, so what's the problem with cash other than your money will be less, Just the inflation. Not only are you not getting any return, but the inflation is actually eating you up. Yeah, cash really isn't meant to be held onto unhoarded, I mean let's zoom out and talk about you sound like Grant Cardone there for a second. Cash is trash.

Speaker 1:

I think Ray Dalio second Cash is trash. I think Ray Dalio Cash is trash. And one thing that Grant Cardone says that's correct is money in your home is dead money. People who want to get their mortgage paid off, especially when interest rates are 3%, when you think you're doing this great thing by paying off your mortgage. But you really just you could have done anything with that money. You could invest that money and made 9% and only paid 3% on it. Got a nice 6% spread. That's what banks do.

Speaker 2:

What? What interest rate you think people have right now where they should not pay off their home?

Speaker 1:

Um, I mean, probably should not. You can't make a blanket rule because so much of this is psychological and dependent on your, your specific situation. But just running the numbers wise, I mean, if you got a mortgage under 6%, that's, that's pretty good. Like, historically speaking, it's pretty freaking good. And if you think about you know, risk-free, you can make 5% right now. Take a little bit of risk, you make 7%, 8%, 9% with your money.

Speaker 2:

And so there's an opportunity cost. By paying off your house, you're locking that money up. You can't be making money somewhere else?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and you know. The fact of the matter is that someday down the road you're going to want to tap into that. So you're going to pay an origination fee and an interest rate to borrow that money back from the house anyway. So why not just skip that step and not pay it back in the first place? So you're on the camp of don't pay off your mortgage early. Yeah, Unless you got a high rate or unless you have um certain, a certain planning need. That that dictates you having a paid off house. Um, some, for some some people. I like to have them pay off their house cause it's the best asset they're going to have there.

Speaker 1:

You can't just click a button and sell your house. So if you have a bunch of cash in the house, I mean it's still growing at 3% a year. Real estate grows around 3% a year. The only reason real estate's a good investment is because you can lever up so much. You can lever four to one. Your 3% return is now a 12% return. But if you got a paid off house, it's still going to grow some. It's pretty well protected from you and your mistakes and just psychologically. So I mean I have a friend who knows exactly what I'm talking about and he's not like a risk averse individual.

Speaker 1:

He's young and I told him about why would you pay off this mortgage and when you could like invest. He's like I know I can make 9% this is only 4% but I wouldn't have a monthly payment anymore. He's like I just don't want to have a monthly payment. I think that's nice, just have a paid off home, no monthly payment. I said okay, well, look, if you understand what I'm telling you and you still want to do that, do that.

Speaker 2:

Helps you sleep at night.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, made him and his wife both feel better the whole point.

Speaker 2:

I had this exact conversation you just had with. I had that twice in the past week, yeah where somebody wanted to pay off their home and I and I said, and but I was like who am I to say that the benefit of you, psychologically, of not having to deal with a monthly note, is to a lot of people.

Speaker 1:

That makes you feel really rich. That's like super bragging. It's such a flex like, yeah, I got paid off.

Speaker 2:

Hold on no monthly note to me it says you're more of a target from a personal injury lawsuit because it's not encumbered by the bank, they got it. If someone, susan, tries to take my house, at least got to deal with the mortgage company too.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah right, yeah, that's true. Little asset protection built in there. It's not mine, it's the bank's it's true, um and so.

Speaker 2:

So let's say my client comes into a windfall of money, and this deals with the psychology of money too. I have this conversation all the time I'm sitting across from them. My client comes in, gets a lot of money, and I'm talking about six figures. What would be your advice to them?

Speaker 1:

Okay, first let's talk about let's break this down in percentage terms, not dollar terms, because what matters is what percent of that settlement you're allocating to different things. I'm down for it. So let's take the first 5% and set it aside. I'll tell you what to do with it at the end. Okay, you're taking 5%, set that aside. Okay, you're going to go and hire a professional. Okay, you need an advisor.

Speaker 1:

Now this is where things get tough, because you might think that you have a great financial planner, but it's actually an insurance salesman and, before you know it, you've got $5 million in insurance coverage, which you have no money in stocks. You need to hire somebody who really knows what they're doing. Okay, if you don't know anybody else, call me. I know what I'm doing and I have proof that I'm helping people a lot. You need a planner.

Speaker 1:

Somebody is going to tell you, help you figure out not just tell you what to do with your money, but figure out who you are, what's your preferences and help you build a plan that works for you. Once you've done so, that plan is going to involve you knowing how much money you're going to make. Knowing how much money you're going to make. Knowing how much money you're going to spend budgeting, just know how much is going out the door, because every time I sit down with someone to do a budget I say, okay, so are you saving $40,000 a year? They're like no, we're not saving anything a year, so where's the other $40,000 going? Really couldn't tell you. So let's know what we're, what we're doing with our money. After that, he's going to help you figure out how to allocate your funds.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 1:

We got this money, we already.

Speaker 2:

we just talked about it, keeping it in the bank is not the best option.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so we need to figure out what to do with it, and with that comes all kinds of pitfalls psychological pitfalls, people trying to take your money from you by by convincing you something's a great idea when it's really a great idea for the person selling it more than it's for you, or they could just be asking you for money because they think you hit the lottery.

Speaker 1:

Or or yeah. And another thing is if you make a bunch of money, try not to tell too many people. You know I get that it is exciting when you're something life-changing happens to and you want to share in that with people, but try not to tell them.

Speaker 2:

I tell everyone keep your settlement confidential, Don't let people even know you sell your case because you're going to get cousins and friends and relatives you didn't even know existed.

Speaker 1:

And that, yeah, and that's another great thing. One of, probably one of the greatest things about having a plan is that when all your money spoken for and allocated somewhere, it's not just sitting there Like you don't have the option to just yeah, okay, I'll loan you. It's like no.

Speaker 2:

I blame it on AJ.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, blame it on me. I don't. I don't have that money in the bank. It's all. It's locked up, it's invested. I have a plan. I can't. This doesn't work with my plan.

Speaker 2:

Okay, let's go back to the plan.

Speaker 1:

5% set on the back congratulate yourself because you've just put yourself into a permanently better financial situation because you've taken care of it. Take that five percent and think about what's something that you've just wanted to do, some some yearning, burning desire that you've had that you couldn't it, you couldn't scratch. It's a vacation or no, telling what it is. I knew a lot of people want a new car. They want to, they want to upgrade the kitchen and the house. Whatever it is. Go do that and treat yourself and enjoy it. You can really enjoy a guilt-free because you know you've already set yourself upright. So now spending this money, it doesn't have that like hint of guilt to it If you don't really know what you're doing.

Speaker 1:

You re, you get a bunch of money. At first you feel rich and then you see what spending is like and then spending is cool for like a month and then you gotta kind of spend a little more to get the same feeling and then you know six months go by and then of course everybody comes out the way. They see you spending money. You spend some money on your friends. Before you know it it's like I'm already down half of my settlement and I don't even know what to do with the other half. Then you get paralyzed. And then you get paralyzed and then you say, okay, I just got to get, I'm gonna put it, or hey, I'm just gonna buy a cd, so I can't touch it right. So now you're 28, 35 years old, you got a quarter million dollars and it's locked up in a cd making you four percent, meanwhile the market's doing 30 percent. So it's locked up in a CD making you 4%, meanwhile the market's doing 30%. So a lot of this is about not missing out on the gains that you should.

Speaker 2:

I like what you said about the 5% in our previous podcast. If you don't treat yourself with 5%, 2%, 5%, you're going to think that the whole settlement is for your enjoyment.

Speaker 1:

Yes, that's why I say you need to set that part aside. I love that.

Speaker 2:

I love that. All right, tell me, let's go percentages wise at 5%. Tell me the next percentage that you would look at, okay.

Speaker 1:

Well, the, the, the. Usually the number two thing is a house. Do you own a house or not? If you don't own a house, you don't have to buy a house. Buying a house is not like always, not always a good idea. It's not always financially savvy, but a lot of times that's what people want to do is own a home, and there's again a lot of psychological benefit to that. But you're going to want to take a look at your home situation. Should you upgrade? Should you rent a bigger place? That's usually what most people think about. Next thing after that is the car.

Speaker 2:

Wait a second. We skipped one, one that you typically hit hard. What's?

Speaker 1:

that. High interest credit card debt, hard debt, Well yeah, so before we even talk about assets, let's talk about debt. So yeah, if you have any high interest debt, that's the most obvious thing to do. Think about it this way If I got a credit card and it's charging me 26% interest, if I pay that off, that's a guaranteed 26% return. So that's you know, Buffett did 20% over his lifetime. 26% is pretty good. I would take every opportunity to get 26%.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so payoff, payday loans, high interest credit card. You might have a high note on a car because you were in a different financial situation, so your rent-to-own car is charging you 15%, 20%.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

You could have a high mortgage rate. You could have Consumer debt. Consumer debt, you could have some old hospital bills that you didn't take care of, some old, just miscellaneous bills. Wipe that out with the next percentage and that could be anywhere from 10%, 30 or 40%, depending on the person.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it depends. It completely depends on how much debt you got. But you have to knock it out. It's like a cancer and I know it sucks. You get this nice six figures in your bank account and then it immediately rolls out.

Speaker 1:

I'm about to pay off a car. I have a car note. Bought my wife a car because we needed a car that could hold three car seats, which was like oh my gosh, uh, but got an eight percent rate and I know the right thing to do is to pay it off. But just seeing that much money leave my bank account all at once like I don't want to do it. You know, again, I'm still. I'm still a human being, with, with human and I I know the numbers work out, but I'm like man. I'm probably going to pay off 10 grand, 20 grand, and then start paying like double the minimum per month. And that's me just.

Speaker 1:

You know hard and fast rules or you can throw out the hard and fast rules. You should always do just like working out, like sorry if I'm trailing, but when you're working out, most people go into the gym and they try to go super hard and do all the crazy things they see on YouTube and try to really get that good workout and feel like they did the right thing, when in reality your first workout should be like you almost do nothing because you're going to get sore so quick and the rest of it is just unneeded fatigue. And if you keep doing that, you're going to feel like crap after a couple months and you're going to quit completely. Meanwhile you could just go to the gym and do what I call a minimum effective volume. You just do just enough that it makes a difference and then you keep pumping up that volume. It's the tortoise and the hare.

Speaker 1:

It's the tortoise and the hare. It's the tortoise and the hare, Exactly.

Speaker 2:

Okay, and then the last 50% are you investing that?

Speaker 1:

I'm investing as much as I possibly can. The only reason I'm doing this other stuff is to allow me to know how much I can invest and know that I can keep it there for a long time. You have to be able to keep it there for a long time If you're going to cash out next year a long time. You have to be able to keep it there for a long time. If you're going to cash out next year, don't buy stocks If you have minimum five years now.

Speaker 1:

It could work out great where next year it's way up and you sell great, but I wouldn't count on that. I would count on needing at least five years probably more like 10 years to watch your money double. But I know my money's doubling in the next decade. Okay, I don't. I don't know that, but that is the most likely outcome. And even if it doesn't double in the next decade, there probably wasn't some great alternative. There wasn't some other investment that doubled and mine didn't See what I'm saying. It could just be that the future of investing isn't as great as the present.

Speaker 1:

Awesome AJ where can people find you? I'm on the internet. I like xcom. That's the place where I'm least followed, but where I post the most content. I'm on Instagram. We have tossfinancialcom. I have a sub stack that I write tosssubstackcom. I just hired an intern who's quickly become a new advisor after he passed his exam, and he's writing a sub stack. I don't know what he's calling his yet, though, so we have to link it in the show notes what's your, what's your handle on instagram?

Speaker 1:

uh at a j t o c e. So my name awesome and also so I would like to shout this out toss financial has a twitter pay xcom page and I am I'm being fully transparent on how I'm building my journey. The journey of building an RIA is what we're called a registered investment advisor, so I'm showing people how many clients we have, how much we're managing in assets. I'm showing you, like, real performance reports that I'm sending to clients, anonymized, obviously, but I'm trying to show you performance reports that I'm sending to clients, anonymized, obviously, but I'm trying to show you everything that you would want to know about someone, cause I'm trying to enter into lifelong relationships with people and get them to trust me with their future and their family's future, and so I'm trying to be as transparent as possible and show you exactly what I'm about, what I'm up to, why I'm doing it, how I'm doing it.

Speaker 2:

Okay, and how did you do?

Speaker 1:

for your clients. Last year, clients did great last year. I think I think the uh you know, if somebody was was investing in the S and P in 2023, it was like a 24% return. I've actually got a lot of people who I look at their 401k which I don't manage 401ks cause that's with your employer but I can look at it for you and tell you instead of doing this, do that. And I've got a lot of people who are like, oh my God, my 401k is growing so much faster now. That's awesome.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, congratulations. Thank you for being here. Drive safe on the way back, brother. Thank you, man. All right, hey, it would mean the world to me if you subscribe to the podcast and leave us a five-star review. It helps keep the show free and it helps us book better guests to provide more valuable content to you. None of the opinions expressed by my guests are that of my own, and nothing we talked about creates an attorney-client relationship or could be construed as legal advice. Hope you enjoy the show. This podcast is powered by Acadiana Cast Network. Go to acadianacastcom for more South Louisiana-sourced content.

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Chaz Roberts

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