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Law Have Mercy!
Law Have Mercy! isn’t just about the law anymore—it’s about life, business, health, and everything that sparks curiosity. Join Personal Injury Attorney Chaz Roberts as he dives into candid conversations that mix legal insights with lifestyle tips, entrepreneurial wisdom, and personal growth. From breaking down complex legal issues in simple terms to exploring the challenges and triumphs of health, business, and beyond, Chaz brings his unique perspective and passion to every episode.
Whether you're here to learn, laugh, or find inspiration, Law Have Mercy! has something for everyone. Just remember: the opinions of our guests are their own, and nothing on this podcast is legal advice or creates an attorney-client relationship—it’s all about entertainment, exploration, and empowerment. Let’s make it fun!
Law Have Mercy!
Justice, Empathy, and the Trials of Law: Finding Balance in a Life of Litigation with Jerome Moroux
Our guest, Jerome H. Moroux, is a partner and practicing attorney at Broussard, David, & Moroux Injury Law in Lafayette, Louisiana. To learn more about Jerome or connect with him, visit his dedicated page here or follow his firm on Instagram @bdmlaw
On today's episode of Law Have Mercy! podcast, Chaz sits down with friend and fellow Lafayette personal injury attorney, Jerome H. Moroux! Though the two attorneys met on their first day of law school, their respective journeys to LSU Law were quite different. More specifically, Chaz started his law school career fresh off completing his undergraduate degree as an LSU student, while Jerome began his law school journey after earning and eventually leaving his first career as a teacher. As they weave through Jerome's transition from teacher to esteemed trial lawyer, the two attorneys dive deep into the rich emotional intelligence required in their field. Plus, they share stories of law school escapades, the magnetic pull of the courtroom, and the adrenaline rush of trial preparation. But this isn't just shop talk! Prepare for an intimate look into the moments that shape them both as legal professionals and the continuous learning that is equally important and necessary to propel their careers forward.
Becoming a master of the courtroom demands more than just a sharp legal mind; it calls for a narrative prowess akin to that of legendary literary figures. Jerome and Chaz dissect how storytelling is an essential thread in the fabric of trial work, binding the attorneys to their clients and the persons of the jury. They touch upon the vitality of maintaining integrity in an often skeptical world and highligh the lighter side of life that balances the scales—think Louisiana crawfish boils and marathon running as unlikely yet fitting metaphors for the endurance and a̶p̶p̶e̶t̶i̶t̶e̶ f̶o̶r̶ p̶u̶n̶i̶s̶h̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ strategy behind a successful legal career.
Amidst the rigorous discipline of trial prep, the attorneys navigate the ethical currents that are the lifeblood of their profession. Jerome and Chaz peel back the curtain on the courtroom's formalities, the weight of truth in client interactions, and the artful dance of juggling multiple trials—all while fiercely safeguarding their own personal convictions and humanity. It's a candid exploration of the delicate interplay between aggressive advocacy and the humble acknowledgement that, even in the heat of legal battle, their victories are but ripples in the vast ocean of life's grander narrative. Join us for a conversation that's as real as it gets in the world of law!
You can watch most full episodes of Law Have Mercy on YouTube!
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This show is co-produced by Carter Simoneaux of AcadianaCasts Network, Chaz H. Roberts of Chaz Roberts Law and Kayli Guidry Bonin of Beau The Agency, and Laith Alferahin.
Hey guys, this is Chaz with another episode of Law have Mercy. On today's episode, I bring on my good friend, jerome Morrow. He is an excellent trial lawyer and we talk about what he does to get ready for battle. We talk about why honesty is the best policy and we even learn some lessons from General Grant. It's a great episode I hope you enjoy. Enjoy, jerome, I can't believe you agreed to do this, but here we are 17 years later, my friend.
Speaker 2:Wow, I can't believe I agreed to do it either. Really happy to be here, though, so so great to visit with you today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, can you?
Speaker 2:believe we've been practicing law for 14 years, is it? Yeah, I mean, uh, I can't believe that, but whenever I go to a deposition or a hearing, I'm reminded pretty quickly that I still haven't. Uh, I should, I should know more than I do know, so I guess it's unbelievable. Unbelievable at the same time.
Speaker 1:I used to do this, this talk, when clients would come in and I say now, look, I know I look young, but trust me, I have a lot of experience. And they're like, bro, you got grays on the side, you don't need to say that anymore.
Speaker 2:I try to keep all conversations about my appearance to a minimum. It's not really that it doesn't lend any credibility to me.
Speaker 1:No, so we met. Actually, I thought it was the first day of law school, but you reminded me that it was actually in our like visit in March before we even started.
Speaker 2:That was right. That was amazing. I we, you know they let everyone uh into the law school to come visit to see what the school's like. And I was. I was a little older than everyone else and so, um, I remember meeting you and I I had a really good interaction. We visited and I was like that guy's so cool. I went home and told my wife I was like, okay, maybe everyone there is bad, but there is one guy who's really great. Of course, it was awesome when we started and became friends. It's been one of my favorite things about our career is actually watching how well you're doing and seeing all your success. It's been a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, likewise, and you were actually teaching at the time.
Speaker 2:I was a teacher. I taught high school literature at the time and I'd done that for a while, really enjoyed it Reading books is really great but their best teachers were the people who were really concerned with making their craft excellent or being a better, better teacher. And I taught with people like that who'd spend their summers doing that, and it wasn't really me and I kind of realized, well, look, I want to do a job where I'm constantly feeling like I'm inadequate and want to get better, and to me, the legal field is the best job for that Was was your intent, always to go to law school.
Speaker 2:I don't think I ever had any intention to do anything. I mean, I just I knew I didn't want to be a lawyer. So that was, I think, how I approached my life. And here I am. But uh, I, my family, was a lawyer. You know, my father was a lawyer. Um, my grandfather, all my uncles, were lawyers, and so my natural, rebellious response to that was to avoid it at all costs. And look where that, look where that led me, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah Right. So you were, you were teaching, and then you said I think I'm going to take the LSAT.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my wife actually had been married. She's a lawyer.
Speaker 1:Of course I could not get away, and so um a glutton for punishment.
Speaker 2:I am a glutton for punishment, but she was. I mean, you know a lot of everything, of course, that I was thinking about what I just talked about. You know it was so much inspired by our conversations and visiting about just, you know, wanting to do something that you can help people, that you can, that you can actually like be challenged. I think that's a super important thing about being a lawyer. That is a great opportunity. You know it's like if you're a surgeon I'm sure there's a lot of challenges, but by and large you're doing the surgery that you've been trained to do. Being a lawyer is this like infinitely changing job that you're constantly trying to figure out how it you know the case itself, or dealing with the other lawyer or dealing with these facts. That was exciting to me and learning about those particulars made me want to pursue it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I often wonder, like you know what did I sign up for me? Want to pursue it? Yeah, I often wonder, like you know what, what did I sign up for? Even after 14 years, right, when I think I have something like figured out, it's constantly changing and sometimes I question like maybe if it wasn't constant change, I'd probably be bored For sure I would.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think that it's. It is so much about, uh, being nimble and being able to, like, accommodate whatever chaos or difference, at least in our job, the kind of work that we do that it gives you this, like this hit of dopamine. You know, every time there's something different. I love that. I love that about the job Every new lawyer, every new fact, every new judge, every new trial, it's all like this interesting, like mind meld that you get to be a part of. I love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you also have to have a wide range in your emotional skill set, right To deal with clients who may have a 10th grade education, eighth grade education, might be a doctor, might be a lawyer that's your client and then also have to present that story to a jury of all different backgrounds, but also communicate in a legal manner to a defense lawyer, a judge. It's a vast array of skills that you need to possess as a lawyer.
Speaker 2:Well, I agree with that a million percent. I would just quibble with one thing is you don't need to possess those skills to be a lawyer. Well, I agree with that a million percent. I would just quibble with one thing is you don't need to possess those skills to be a lawyer. I think that the best lawyers lawyers I look up to have like figured out a way to use and you know every lawyer is different and they've figured out what their strengths are and work to those. So you know, I think being a lawyer is just being comfortable in yourself, like the best lawyers. And I always look up to lawyers. I mean, before I was, you know, when I was first year as a lawyer, I'd go watch trials and I just watch how these experts, lawyers did. And I'm constantly watching other lawyers, how they do, how you do, how GW does, all these friends who do this work. That helps me like think about how things are done and how to do differently, and you just have to have that receptivity and this job gives you that opportunity. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that you're saying that. I've been thinking about that lately and I was like you know you listen to comedians and they say it takes you 10 years to find your voice right and you just have to work different material until you feel your true authentic self and who you are. And I look at another analogy I think about is like pitchers in the big league. Some are 5'6", 140 pounds. Cece Sabathia is like 320 pounds. Yeah, right, exactly, and some come from this thing, some are left-handed, some throw over the top, but they're all effective in different ways. And I think as I've evolved in my career, I've found my true authentic voice and I think that's what all the the really experienced trial lawyers tell you is like find your voice, because no one like you you're not about to do. Chaz can't do what Jerome does.
Speaker 2:Or I can't do what you do. I mean you know what I mean. Like I think that's so true and it's sort of like again, like going back to why being a lawyer is so amazing is because you can. Those sorts of like recognitions of your own whatever are beneficial in your own life, like how to be a father I'm going to be the father to my children. Like I can be.
Speaker 2:I can't be like Chaz. I see Chaz going to these games. I'm like man, he's just unbelievable. I go to one game. I'm like, oh my gosh, I got to leave Because I one game. I'm like, oh my gosh, I gotta leave. Uh, because I'm just I, I'm just joking and not really hopefully they cut, but I, I mean, you know, I'm just like I don't understand, for instance, in basketball. Like you go into a gym, it's a little kids basketball court, there's two referees which I fail to understand why that's the case, both blaring loud whistles and every time someone wants to enter the game they have have to. I don't understand that and I that stuff blows me away and rule following in general just blows me away.
Speaker 2:And that's what sports are about. So anyway, go ahead.
Speaker 1:So you decide to be a lawyer and it's like, okay, well, there are many, many, many different areas of law, as law of mercy has shown you there. There are transactional lawyers, there are real estate lawyers or patent lawyers. And you say there are transactional lawyers, there are real estate lawyers, there are patent lawyers. And you say that's not no, I'm going to do trial work, yes, and I'm going to focus on trial work, which is the most difficult, I think, from a preparation, pressure pressure cooker. I mean, it's the ultimate of competition and challenging on mind, body, spirit, everything. All of the above. What brought you to trial work?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, you know, I think, uh, what we kind of just talked about, you know, is is I always looked up to trial lawyers and, um, I think that that's a very special gift. It sort of like combines all those things we were just talking about. But, um, you know, the cheesy thing about like Atticus Finch, you know, I mean that's such the ready made conversation of someone standing and protecting people, and definitely when I was like in seventh grade was moved by that. But it wasn't just like Atticus Finch, I mean, there's tons of like fictional lawyers and detectives and that kind of like way of bearing. That was just attractive to me. And I love pressure, I love being in a very difficult or complex situation and thinking through it and trying to keep your head up. That just was intoxicating to me, so I was all over it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then you have to come back and tell a story.
Speaker 2:And then you have to actually come back and tell a story, which is probably the biggest challenge. You know, every single time I'm sure you do the same thing, but you know, you prepare for trial and you get into your story and you forget how to tell the story. It's just a natural, like preparation or consequence of your preparation, where you're like okay, let me go over every single visit that she had with this doctor and let me go over every single this, and then you forget that this is just a story for 12 people. And I always give my opening to my wife, who is brilliant and amazing and a lawyer in her own right, but is very, very gifted in that she can be like stop saying this, stop saying facet, mediated, stop saying more likely than not in a conversation, and because you're exactly right, at the end of the day, it's about the story, the true story. But how do we tell a story? And I'm obsessed with that. So, yeah, that's what gets me.
Speaker 1:And what do you draw on for, like inspiration to tell the story? Is this literature you've read? Is this experience you've had? How do you tell that story?
Speaker 2:See, this is exactly what we just talked about. Every single interaction in the world is like building you for some other thing. I don't think there's any like lost, like there's no wastes of time. So it's like you go to see the Grateful Dead play, or you go, you read this passage by Borges, or you read this poem, or you go out with your friends or you do a Mardi Gras ball, like all these things are like informing you about the world. I know that sounds like cheesy and pretentious, but so you know like those sorts of experiences should be preparing you for being a human. And when you're trying a case, I think the best lawyers are the lawyers who are just human or just real, who put on the evidence and that's all you have to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I they say, you know, if you take time and get to know someone, do you ever do home visits or try to be around them? And to you know, look at a photograph that they may have and it it kind of hits that button in your head like okay, I understand this story.
Speaker 2:It's mal I think it's malpractice for a trial lawyer representing people to not visit your client's house. Okay, because it tells you so much. I mean, it tells you not just sometimes the physical disability that they experience, right, like, oh wow, I didn't realize that they needed to have this experience tool to open their drawers or that he's paralyzed and I didn't realize how hard it is for him to make a corner in his, his wheelchair. I mean these sort of like structural things about your clients, 24 hours when they're not around you, are essential to being able to understand why they need certain that, how harm you know how harmed they've been and why certain repairs need to be made. So always, always want to know the space that they inhabit so that you can tell their story.
Speaker 1:So, absolutely, Can you explain like this is interesting, jimbo gave me this word the other day the pound of flesh, because I don't think most people understand the pound of flesh that the lawyers give when they try a case. Can you explain like just how intense it is and the kind of the buildup through trial and and and and your experience through that?
Speaker 2:Sure, and obviously I should say this I try cases but there are many, many, many more experienced and better lawyers than me. So I'll just tell you from my little fingerprint or finger nail. Experience is that every trial sort of starts to heat up, whatever it could be, depending on the size of the case. It's like you start to just feel it in your body. You know, I always start noticing I'm not as hungry it could be a week out, two weeks out just small little things where I'll wake up at 3.30 in the morning and I'm not tired. And it's like I think the body's preparation of, like the understanding of the physical toll it's going to take and you know, working through that, because the great kind of rush of trial is being able to experience those things not eating or not being inclined to eat, not sleeping or not being inclined and that's just anxiety building up.
Speaker 2:It's just this. I don't ever you know what, I don't ever feel anxious. I've got a trial in eight days and it's a big trial. It's difficult, awesome lawyers on the other side, and I just feel like focused. Do you know what I mean? I feel excited. I feel like I have stuff to do, but I'm going to get it done and I'm going to be able to help this person, which is most important. So it's like this just energy. It's like being fired up. And then there's all the other stuff about getting your case ready and realizing you only have 24 hours in a day, and I mean just going.
Speaker 2:you just experienced it, so you know what I mean. And it's shocking. How is it already six o'clock?
Speaker 1:I need 12 more hours Because there's a storytelling aspect and there's the thing that people see on TV where there's actual presentation, but there's all this stuff in the background that people don't see. I got to get my exhibits marked. I need 26 copies of this thing. I need and it's just a lot of like pickaxe work that needs to be prepared to bring the case forward, not to mention motions that need to be heard from the judge, which are all like legal issues, like boring stuff. I don't want to put the viewers to sleep here, but like it's a lot on top of the nice story presented, the Atticus Finch moment, right.
Speaker 2:Of course, it's like, um, people always say, oh, your dad was so cool. My father's named Tony Morrow, and they always talk about how cool he was and how calm and collected he was, and he was a very cool customer, um, but he was never sleeping, he was always working, and so his exterior was just calm and cool. But the calmness and coolness is like a function of the amount of time you put in before it, right?
Speaker 2:yeah that's just like. That's like the mirror, the mirror glaze on a cake or something. It's just like the. It's just a covering of what's really happening, which is what you described of constant flurry of preparation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you just see the tip of the iceberg. You don't see the you know or like a duck swimming. You don't see the feet underneath. You just see a calm duck on the top and the feet are paddling underneath.
Speaker 2:That's perfect, and you know, the best trial lawyers to me are the trial lawyers who disappear, right, like you want to not be the story because it's not your story. You want to be completely fluent in the material that you're presenting to where the jury doesn't see you the jury. We live in a world today where everyone's accustomed to there being no wires and I think about that all the time, like when I'm at trial, like I want nothing on my table because that's what people are accustomed to, like iPhone, right, it's just, it's seamless. So I think that becomes like the standard of, like the aesthetic that people expect and so that, in addition to that physical preparation or appearance, it should just be seamless in your presentation. Again, all the lawyers I really love, they're never wrestling papers, they're just like P44, you know, and it's it's establishing competence and credibility before the tribunal and the jury and you disappear and then the story gets told and that's how it should be.
Speaker 1:And so you go through the trial Trials. Last how long?
Speaker 2:They can ask. I mean, you know, you just had one that was on the books for three weeks One, two, three weeks, usually where it is.
Speaker 1:And what's your routine?
Speaker 2:My routine during trial is I I usually obviously you have to try the case during the day Usually don't eat lunch in trial. Come home and or get back to my office. Always go see my family, even if it's 30 minutes, it's. You know my wife again she's. She thinks that she's producing this spot cause I'm giving her two compliments, but she is always awesome about my. In my trial mode it's like there's always food cooked and kids are always, like you know, readily attentive. I'm sure she did. She was the little duck spinning in the water before. So everything looks fine and spend some time with your family and then go back to work and usually work until midnight. I usually like to try to work past midnight and then try to sleep for four or five hours and then do it again that same day.
Speaker 1:And you said something when I was in Texas I texted you and I said I said man, I, I, this is rough. And you said it takes three days and I'll be damn. And and it said three days to get your let's just put digestive system right, eating right and sleeping right, and I'll be damn. It took me three days, almost to the T, and before I could start feeling like I didn't have that, that anxiety, that built up you know thing, and and and then I became I was normal again.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, see, we don't all run marathons, chad, so some of our best ways to lose weight are to try cases. So that's actually a really good bonus. But of course, in South Louisiana you end up drinking it and eating it back in like three days. But, yeah, I mean there is a like fighting ready, you know, like again when you can be in shape. But fighting shapes a different story, and I think being a trial lawyer is, you know, if you get out of practice, you can forget about what the exacting toll is to get prepared, and so it's always good to keep doing them. Yeah, stay in shape.
Speaker 1:You know an interesting comment about the marathons. It's Kaylee actually pointed this out to me we have a lot of cases. You have a lot of cases and you could work all day on any single case, no matter how far you wanted to go. I mean, there's endless time you could spend on each case, all right. So when you're away from the cases, your mind starts to wander. You might figure out what to do in certain cases. So how do you get away from it? And Kayla was like that's something to say that the two hobbies you choose in life are running marathons where you run for four hours to complete exhaustion, or box where you're getting punched in the face, like that's how you break away from all the clutter that goes on with what you do. Sure, the high stress environment, and I thought that was a good observation. I was like I never really thought about it that way, but it's true, that's definitely true, I'm really into records.
Speaker 2:I way, but it's true, that's definitely true, I'm really into records. I like music, a lot and books, so I read a lot of fiction and of course, I have close friends right, because you know this job is exacting. But when you have people in your life and I mean your family, everyone has. You're a very wonderful father and husband, but having close friends is a very restorative thing for me, and so spending time with them not, you know, I'm friends with lawyers, but my close friends aren't all lawyers so that we can talk about just bullshit you know, and I love that.
Speaker 2:That feels very restorative to me, so that you feel, when you come back to something like you said, you have an insight or some kind of examination of something you didn't see before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember you telling me about you. Remember as a child your dad would just go lay in the pool. That's right, he wasn't swimming, he was just laying on a float just chilling out. And I think about that often and I'm like I get it now.
Speaker 2:That's so true. I think about that. I didn't understand that. You know, as a father, you learn a lot about your own father, and I would always see him, like you said, he'd be on the raft, we had a pool and he would just be staring at nothing. You know music on or maybe sometimes off, and that is the sort of only way that you can unpack whatever it is that we do on a daily basis, and yet we still do it, isn't that crazy right?
Speaker 1:on a daily basis, and yet we still do it, isn't that crazy right? It's a higher calling man, I mean, you know it's it. There was something in my career I was I was telling this to lathe the other day. It was like well, what's, what's your future? I said, man, at some point. It's not about my own personal gain, I'm beyond that. I don't care. Money will come, obviously. I need money to survive and to feed my family, but we're really helping people and that's to me. I get more satisfaction over handing a check to a client who has been injured, who had suffered, than I am my own personal gain, and that's been for a while now, right. That's been for a while now, right.
Speaker 2:That's a really great point. I mean, you know, we my law firm, bruce R Davi Moro, is what I love about my law partners is the priority of service and that we make that a part of our firm culture. Because of exactly what you said. Is this this I never, ever think in a case well, what's my field? I mean you figure out what's the value of the case. You figure out I know from experience. You don't Exactly. We've worked on cases together.
Speaker 2:I think about what is the right result for her or for him, and that's not tooting my horn. I'm saying that's how you're supposed to be. Our job is that you? You said something else that I think is really important. If you do good work I've told you this since we were both lawyers together in the first weeks of being lawyer If you do good work, success will come. I believe that in my heart and how you value that may change or what you think of success is different, or, but doing good work is its own reward and the rewards of the of the world will come if you do good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you think that's a misconception of lawyers that they're only out for money?
Speaker 2:All the I know some of the most righteous people I know are lawyers, you know, I mean, we are blessed, though I think, um, I wonder sometimes if it's just a function of this kind of culture that we have in Acadiana and even in South Louisiana, where, you know, we have just good people that we work with. Uh, you know, I just got left the deposition before here with an awesome, awesome person father lawyer completely getting paid to try to ruin my client's case. Okay, so on the surface, someone who's not on my side, but I have nothing but respect for him and I believe lawyers, you know, there's bad lawyers, there's bad lawyers, there's bad doctors, there's bad bus drivers. But I think many, many, many of us take our jobs seriously and are good people and I love being associated with them. Never, ever, ashamed of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was another thing like with my growth as a lawyer is when I started empathizing for the other side and I realized that they have a job to do and it's really not personal. Now, like you said, there are some bad lawyers out there that have some type of ax to grind, but they may have other issues that we don't even know about, right. But when I started finding commonalities with defense lawyers Right, and it makes the working relationship so much better. They have a job to do, but we are like we're we're sparring no-transcript, right?
Speaker 2:I mean there's, there's, I think, about the fact that there's really, in a case, a normal case. Your clients, the people we represent, oftentimes aren't you know. They don't know every in and out of the legal stuff we go through on a daily basis. They are trying to get better, they are trying to return to some normalcy in their lives and they trust you and me to actually get them there, right? So the client is here, the defense lawyers clients are usually some person in usually another state who has, you know, his own life or her own life and has no concern.
Speaker 2:So you have, there are two people in the world who care about your case, and the other one happens to often be the person across the aisle from you, the lawyer who's taken the same vows as you, are oaths as you, or whatever. And and yeah, I never understood why you'd want to be a jerk to that person, um, because people, when they're jerks to me, just made me want to work harder. They made me want to like, stay later, um, and if someone's cool, it's like okay, let's just move together.
Speaker 2:Let's agree on what we agree upon, disagree on what we agree upon, disagree what we have to disagree upon, and go and do our jobs for our clients yeah, and ultimately that's professionalism I think that is uh, and you know, this is what's great about being a lawyer is there's so many professional lawyers that it's not hard to just follow better people's forms and do that, you know and when you're in trial do you feel I asked you this earlier is like whenever I was trial.
Speaker 1:The phone is away and the world is just turning around me and I feel like I'm just in this cave and everything's changed. My kids are going to school, probably going to practice, my wife's doing her thing I'm assuming they're eating and then I come out of it. I'm like hey, I'm back.
Speaker 2:That's so perfect. You know, right now I say like I just come out of it. I'm like, hey, I'm back. It's so perfect. You know, right now I say like I just walked out of this deposition cause I'm fully in the mood.
Speaker 1:So hopefully this whole yeah, Thanks for being here by the way, you could have just said hey, dude, I love you, chaz.
Speaker 2:Of course I wouldn't do that. But I walked out of the deposition and I said, oh my gosh, it's spring. All of a sudden, the entire season has changed. I didn't realize that. You know, all the live oaks are in the process of shedding their leaves and I've just completely was unaware of it. So, yes, I think that the world of trial is just that world and that's just being focused, that's being on point, and it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:You went to college in New Mexico. I did in Santa Fe, santa Fe. You went to college in New Mexico. I did in Santa Fe, santa Fe.
Speaker 2:Very weird school and you love it, I loved it, I loved it. It was a book, it was all great books, I mean sort of pretentious sounding, but we didn't know what we were doing. It's definitely like we were just reading, you know, starting with Plato and reading all the way through to Heidegger, and it was a lot of but most importantly friendships and I've still closest friends in the world are my friends who went to school with me. So it was an awesome experience.
Speaker 1:So when you were telling me about this school and basically everyone, you go through all the literature and everyone's kind of reading the same books at the same time.
Speaker 2:Everyone is reading. So at St John's college in Santa Fe, every single freshman is reading the exact same thing at every time. And there's 110 freshmen. They're all reading the exact same books. They're going through the same science materials, they're saying math materials, and then every Monday and Thursday nights you all gather together, you know in your respective seminars and you talk about the book. So everyone's talking about you know Plato's Republic at the same time and everyone's talking about Kant's critique of pure reason at the same time. And it's everyone lives on campus. It's pretty intense experience.
Speaker 1:I said, jerome, you know how. When you, when you told me about your school, I said you know how? I know you're smarter than me, cause I didn't even know places like that existed, much less. Being like 16, 17 years old and like opting to go to a place, I was like, uh, lsu, let me in cha-ching. My mom didn't even know I applied to lsu. Right, I was all right, you know I didn't look in fairness.
Speaker 2:Uh, I, I can't believe that. My mom, let me do that. You know, the world's a different place. I have a son who's 17, so you know the whole college search is a completely different conversation now. Whereas I was just like, let me send off for the materials, I got it in the mail. No internet read. Okay, let's go there let's go, let's go.
Speaker 1:And I'm sure you met people from all around the country. Oh yeah, you know that I loved.
Speaker 2:I loved it. I mean anything. When you're 18 years old, your brain is just so fertile, and to have the experiences of people who are completely different to you, who listen to different music than you do, and to learn that and to learn how to deal with different people, was awesome, awesome experience. I would do it 10 times over. What made you come back to Lafayette? I had a kind of weird route because actually, after I lived in Santa Fe, I moved to New York City and I live with a bunch of artists in.
Speaker 2:New York City. Oh man, let's unpack that. No, no, we need a couch for that. There's one right behind you, buddy. I was there. Actually. I said to my I mean, I had a ridiculous idea. This, hopefully this is all cut.
Speaker 2:But I had this ridiculous idea that I said, okay, I'm finished undergrad. I just felt like I needed to not go to school. You're 21, 22 years old. This is I finished undergrad, may of 2001. So I said, okay, what I'm going to do is I'm going to go to New York city and be work on wall street. This is a completely ridiculous concept. I had no idea what wall street meant. I'm not terribly good at math, but I thought that seems like a fun thing to do, I mean some kind of challenge. And so I moved to New York on August 1st 2001.
Speaker 2:And then, of course, September 11th happened while I was there. So the Wall Street idea was not going to happen at all, because not only did I have no chops to do it, but it was this huge, you know. It just basically didn't work out. So it was fine. I was really happy about that and I was not qualified to do that job. And then, after a while, you lived in New York and you said, okay, everything that people like in New York is great, it's high energy, it's fun.
Speaker 2:But what I love about Louisiana, and South Louisiana in particular, is you know, is how receptive the world is to you and you can be to the world. So when I was in New York I was like, well wait, all the amazing things about that New York people value are so ready available here in South Louisiana. It was just a no brainer. I went to a wedding and I went back, moved out of New York and came back, and then not the back sense. I love it so much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's no place like home.
Speaker 2:No place like here either. Yeah, no place. I love it here so much. I mean, is it perfect? No, we have a lot of issues here, but as far as just the people here, just we have great people.
Speaker 1:I went to a crawfish ball at your house a couple years ago and the, the crew that you assemble and the boiled crawfish and the music and like, find me a better time. You know, there's nothing like a Louisiana crawfish boil and some of the festivals here, and there's nothing like it.
Speaker 2:No, people come here and they marvel that it exists because of, like, I think it's because people are open to people here, you know, and to bring this back to like conversations about how you tell your story in front of a jury, it's like we, we live in what's traditionally considered a conservative venue quote-unquote conservative, um but we have people here who want to listen and want at least in their best, their better part of their nature wants to listen and wants to be concerned, um, and we have this fierce work environment that we have here that you kind of put that all together and you make this real special thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know this is a little kind of off topic, but where I grew up in St Martin Parish, like I don't remember politics being discussed at all like my entire childhood, and it's so crazy Like people were just, they were just into surviving and having a good time on the weekend. That's all it ever was and and I know that was like thick Cajun country and there's a lot of that still in Lafayette and I feel like this is one of those places like they may vote a certain way, may do a certain thing, but ultimately like people get along very well, here they do.
Speaker 2:I mean, obviously this is a whole other podcast conversation, but there's definitely been a lot of politicization of things that shouldn't be political. But I think you're on the whole right. If you go to Downtown Live or Festival International, Festival Zacadena in Creole, it's like it's just good energy, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just avoid the KATC comment section, you'll be all right. Yeah, don't read comment.
Speaker 2:Look you should. This is one of the reasons I was so I hate social media. I mean, it's a necessary evil and we can talk about this because I do think that you know there's value to it. Um, and one of the things that your social media talks about is, like, a lot of folks don't know lawyers they've never interacted with lawyers.
Speaker 2:So to see someone like you, chas, who is I'm not just telling this because I love you, I'm just telling you because it's true it's that you really are a good listener and you're real right. You're you, like you said a minute ago, and so the flip side of like the horrors of social media is that they can be exposed to honest, straightforward, loving, good parents people on social media who can make them change their opinion about the whole legal field. Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so it does have value, although it's a limited value. Yeah, social media I mean, right.
Speaker 1:Well, I see that the insurance companies and the lobbyists and everyone else the insurance companies and the lobbyists and everyone else what they're doing is putting out propaganda and vilifying lawyers Right, and I'm not saying that we've always done the best job of putting our best foot forward Right In commercials, billboards, whatever public perception and so what I'm trying to do is say, oh, lawyers serve a very important purpose because they represent individuals against billion dollar companies. And here's what we do. And I look like you, I sound like you, I know I talk funny, I look like a normal dude, and so I feel that it's my duty, the thing that I could bring to the legal profession because I've gotten so much from the legal profession what I can give back is say, hey, lawyers are not bad people, they're cool guys, they're normal guys, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm not a cool guy, but I definitely, I definitely think that lawyers are, you know, one of the most noble professions in the world. I mean, I can't keep saying that you talk about it's not just people against billion dollar, billion dollar organizations. I mean, we obviously represent people and it's amazing that you can go into a courtroom and it could be John Smith versus Exxon.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. That's the only place in this universe today where, at least in theory, 12 people are going to be staring at two entities that have no equitable buying power checkbooks, but that they can be seen equal before the law. I love that idea. But even the person on the other side, right, they're doing such a noble job because they're speaking for a company, they're speaking for an idea that you and I may disagree with their ultimate result, but it's a very noble thing to be speaking for another, and I think that you're. You know, anything that we can do in the public to increase the perception that these are. This profession is a good and honest profession by and large, is a really, really great thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when it hit me, not only in representing people and the importance of that in individuals, but I had an experience. My grandmother was in hospice. My grandmother basically raised me. She was like a mother which is common in our parts, right, and she was in hospice. It was going to be one of the last times I ever saw her. But at a court date I went, I had my suit on, I showed up to court, realized that they moved it to one o'clock instead of eight 30. I drove to Cecilia, hung out with my grandmother for a few hours and I went to court and it just hit me like this is one of the last bastions of like ultimate professionalism. Like I have a court date, I have to show up. It doesn't matter what I'm dealing with at home, it doesn't matter that my so-and-so is her, I got personal issues. You show up to court and by and whole, like most people, show up and perform. I love that.
Speaker 2:See, these are the little things that you know, we talk about like.
Speaker 2:What I just love about being a lawyer I mean, that can go on and on but especially a trial lawyer, is that all the little formalities of being a trial lawyer are designed to show one's respect for the law.
Speaker 2:You know, and again, I think the law in America, at least in theory, is supposed to be the highest order of the land. Right, the law is just sacrosanct and our kind of practitioner of like affecting how the law operates in reality is like a really noble calling. And so, like everything from like, I always think, permission to approach, which I just think is so offhand set, it just recognizes the, the. You know, the respect afforded to the to the tribunal, the respect that you're giving to the witness, like may I ask, I'm asking you if I can approach this person's space objections. The actual words that you're giving to the witness, like may I ask, I'm asking you if I can approach this person's space Objections. The actual words that you're used. They're all old school ways of like preserving this integrity of something that is very, I think, worth saving in a culture that where everything else is being dispatched at every minute.
Speaker 1:I love it, man. I mean, I never thought of it that way, but it's the formalities that are really. It's just really cool.
Speaker 2:It's a different like formality too. Like you wear a tuxedo to a Mardi Gras ball right, that's obviously recognizing that this event calls for this sort of informal dress. But you go to the Mardi Gras and dance to juvenile. No disrespect to juvenile, I love juvenile. What? I'm saying but a courtroom is just special and everyone is like, you know, when you enter that room and you have a client next to you, or when the jury's filing in or filing out, and you're standing for them, and it's just powerful and it's really, really special.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had a call today, in fact, with a defense lawyer and he says look man, I apologize, I couldn't get this to you. I know you want to move this thing forward, but here's the personal issues I'm dealing with. And he says look man, I apologize, I couldn't get this to you. I know you want to move this thing forward, but here's the personal issues I'm dealing with. And he had an ill mother or something like that. And my first reaction was how can I help you? Don't worry about it, it's good. How can I help you? Is there anything you need from me? How can I make your life better? And we had such a moment, you know, and it's. It's those moments too, within the structure, within the formalities, is those human moments that really get me going.
Speaker 2:What do you want to be remembered as right? Do you want people to tell your children your dad was a asshole but an amazing lawyer, or do you want him to say your dad was a good person?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, I know, having lost a dad, that's what's better to be remembered as but being a good person is like oh, you have a real life going on. Let me, how can I help you? That that's I would. I would never. I hope that no lawyers do this they do. You should never use your opponent's personal issues to your advantage. Right, you know? If they're not ready for trial, well then that's different. But I'm talking about when life presents itself in all of its reality. If you don't have the spiritual fortitude to recognize that what we do on a daily basis may mean a lot in the little world, but not in the big world, then you've missed the whole boat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I used to say that people, asshole lawyers represent even bigger asshole clients. You know because? Because the lawyer is just the front for the, for the client's wishes. And then now I realize, no, the client, the lawyer, is just an asshole, because you should have got rid of the client. Yeah Right, so if and that same story I just told you when I relay that to my client if my client says, nah, man, you got put your foot on the throat and push down, I'm going to say I'm sorry, I'm not the lawyer for you.
Speaker 2:That's right. That's exactly. We are still human beings, right.
Speaker 1:We're still human beings.
Speaker 2:Be a human, and that's like everything that we do. So you have a couple of big trials coming up.
Speaker 1:Yes, how do you balance all? How do you juggle all these balls?
Speaker 2:Probably not. Well, you know, um, I, I, I don't know how I just try and um, some days, you know, I do better job than others and uh, I just try to keep trying. And um, I have an amazing staff, uh, which is, uh, probably what I should have said at the very beginning, because the only reason I'm here is because my staff is doing all the. What'd you call it? What did you call it? The pick?
Speaker 1:pickaxe work. I love that Right.
Speaker 2:They do all the pickaxe work and they're amazing people. Janie Meg, megan, mimi um.
Speaker 1:I call her Sophie, but her name is Sadie.
Speaker 2:I knew who to ask permission to get you on the podcast, by the way so, first off, the way I juggle anything is because of them and all the forbearance that my wife gives me just to be out in the world. But I mean, it's just like exercise. You know you run. I always ask Chaz about running and I'll say shit like I can only run like three miles and I'm exhausted after two. You know, some days you can run five miles and have no problem. You know, not me, but one other person in theory. So you know that's how I balance it is. Some days are good, some days are bad, and when the days are bad I don't beat myself up. I'm going to try the next day.
Speaker 1:That's the difference. Like I've learned it's if you have a bad day, don't dwell on it. Tomorrow will be a better day.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. This is, I mean, like we get. We are so blessed to do what we do. Okay, don't be hard on yourself. You make mistakes. I make so many mistakes. I've made mistakes in the parking lot while I was waiting for you to come here. Just oh, I sent this, or I asked the wrong question. But man, what is it? Let's just, let's just try our best.
Speaker 1:What are you seeing in your cases, Because I know you have a lot of big cases. What do you see where the client actually hurts or ruins their case Not ruins but hurts their case. What are your big gripes? Because I have my own and we may have some of the same.
Speaker 2:I'm sure there's similar chats. I mean, obviously you know, social media is a big thing that a person can ruin their case by, Not because in and of itself it's bad though it is, but it's because it creates a. Probably it doesn't tell the whole story right, and you've discussed this on your pod before, but just because someone's happy at a crawfish boil doesn't mean that they're miserable the next seven days. Well, humans are designed to see images and draw inferences from the images, and in the case of images on social media, they don't necessarily put your client in the best light. I have no idea why anyone should ever put any picture of themselves in litigation anywhere.
Speaker 1:I cannot. I can say it till I'm blue in the face and most people take my advice, but every once in a while somebody just has to flex.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know this is a whole other story, but I think some people are addicted to that, like self-curation or this idea that there are these people that are doing something, and the media is actually designed to be addictive. So it's not necessarily their fault, but I would say number one case killer, though, to me is that when you have someone who doesn't tell the truth, okay, your case, the biggest cases in the world okay are usually good people, Because insurance companies, big companies, are terrified of being cast in judgment over wronging a good person. So you know, not everyone is going to be perfect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not a perfect person, just a good person. Even good people make mistakes too.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. But your question is is what ruins a case is if your client is not, doesn't exhibit signs of good behavior, if she lies, if she over-exaggerates, if she double, double scripts or dates prescriptions from this. These things show dishonesty, and especially in South Louisiana. When someone is dishonest in their, their dealings it, it makes people not want to fully believe everything else that's being spoken.
Speaker 1:If you lied about this, what makes us think you're not lying about this Exactly?
Speaker 2:Exactly so. Every doctor is treating you based on what you tell them, and if what you're telling them is different than what you're telling other doctors, that's a big case killer.
Speaker 1:Because you, as a lawyer, no matter how bad the truth is, you can deal with the truth right. If they were arrested before, had an old conviction or they had some car wrecks in the past, you can deal with that. You know how to operate under those circumstances. What you can't deal with is when they lie about it.
Speaker 2:Lying is very, very bad Turns out lying is bad. You didn't need a law degree to figure that out, but that's true. But because of what it does right. We talked for this whole period about the sort of respect. Right and respect is about candor and it's not necessarily. Respect isn't about good. Respect is about candor, recognizing it, and I think all the best lawyers recognize the good and the bad in their case. I try to do this in every case, especially cases getting ready for trial, as I sit down and I've got three columns good, bad, ugly. I do this in every trial and I'm honest with myself, even though it's easy to not get honest with yourself, it's very easy not to get honest.
Speaker 1:That's an excellent observation.
Speaker 2:It's not necessarily that you're dishonest with yourself, but that, because you've been, it's sort of like a confirmation bias, because you're believing everything you're saying. Because you're saying everything you're believing, you lose the sense of what it is is real, and that's why it's always awesome to have partners to talk about your case.
Speaker 1:The same reason that cops maybe hone in on the wrong suspect and everything it confirms what they thought was that, yeah, exactly right, you can see what you want information bias, information bias.
Speaker 2:And so the danger, especially when you're preparing a trial right, it's chas roberts, it's jerome morrow building putting all this medical records together. So you start to see what you want to see. So I always do this before trials. I I have the good, the bad and the ugly and I try to populate that list and recognize it and see what it is. Sometimes you have nothing in the ugly category, all right. Sometimes you have a lot of things in them and I've tried jury trials with things, with a lot of things in the ugly category and the best way to handle it and again, all the best lawyers will tell you this is you have to be honest with the jury that there's some ugly stuff in the case, but that doesn't change the fact of X, y and Z and that's a truthful statement. But diffusing it but you can't diffuse it if you're not honest with yourself about it being there.
Speaker 1:Yeah To your point. Like if I'm in a deposition and I know of the ugly and I'm waiting, I'm waiting for it, but the client knows that they're going to admit to the ugly and they question them and they hit it. Well, were you arrested for this, this and this? Yes, I'm looking at the defense lawyer's reaction and it's just a checkmark. We're just moving on. It's not like an aha got you moment If you lie about it. It's just a check mark. We're just moving on. It's not like an aha got you moment. If you lie about it, it's so much worse, right, but when you admit it, it's really a nothing burger. Most people perceive that that wreck that they had 18 months before would be a case killer. They admit it. We just check the box and we just move on.
Speaker 2:That's so true. You know, the best thing about litigation, one of the best things about it, is this sort of bias that you have about the other. I think this is an interesting concept. We talked about this. Like you know, ulysses Grant was the president and one of the best stories that Grant ever told was that the first time he was in battle, you know he'd gone to West Point and not terribly distinct, without much distinction, but went to West Point and was training how to be a leader.
Speaker 2:But then, when his first day of battle arose, he began the campaign and he tells the story. It was a little like he was going to attack 15 people. Wasn't a big battle, but in his heart he said I was climbing the hill. You know he was going to go attack people at the bottom of this valley. So he said I was going up the hill and all I could think about was I just want to be a waif. I do not want to be here right now. I hate this feeling.
Speaker 2:He was feeling anxiety, panic, and he got to the top of the hill and he looked down at the hill and he noticed that the Confederate encampment had deserted. They left their pots and everything on the fire and they were still smoking and he said it was. At that moment I realized that the enemy is oftentimes way more in fear of you than you are of them, and you have to think like how is the enemy perceiving you? And I always think about that in litigation, because we oftentimes over-inflate what our weaknesses are in the eyes of the other, when in fact you should recognize that they are just as horrified of you and doing the same thing to you as you are to them. And that kind of like mind game is why litigation is such a blast.
Speaker 1:That is awesome. So that's just a gentle reminder to always, you know, don't kill your case right, Believe in your case and don't assume that they're going to poke every hole. I mean, I love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1:Jerome. Thank you for being here, man, I know you've got a lot to do to prepare for your next trial. Where can people find you?
Speaker 2:You can find me in my office usually but my law firm Broussard, david and Morrow and if you ever. You know we work on a lot of cases. We do the same kind of work but you know, for serious and traumatic injuries, just like you have. We take care of people, we've been doing it, and I'll be in Lafayette and I'll be in my office today.
Speaker 1:Thank you, buddy. All right, my brother, all right. Hey, it would mean the world to me if you subscribe to the podcast and leave us a five-star review. It helps keep the show free and it helps us book better guests to provide more valuable content to you. None of the opinions expressed by my guests are that of my own, and nothing we talked about creates an attorney-client relationship or could be construed as legal advice. Hope you enjoy the show.
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