Law Have Mercy!
Law Have Mercy! isn’t just about the law anymore—it’s about life, business, health, and everything that sparks curiosity. Join Personal Injury Attorney Chaz Roberts as he dives into candid conversations that mix legal insights with lifestyle tips, entrepreneurial wisdom, and personal growth. From breaking down complex legal issues in simple terms to exploring the challenges and triumphs of health, business, and beyond, Chaz brings his unique perspective and passion to every episode.
Whether you're here to learn, laugh, or find inspiration, Law Have Mercy! has something for everyone. Just remember: the opinions of our guests are their own, and nothing on this podcast is legal advice or creates an attorney-client relationship—it’s all about entertainment, exploration, and empowerment. Let’s make it fun!
Law Have Mercy!
Sole Custody, Prenups, & Other Family Law Fundamentals you NEED to Know in 2024
You can connect with our guest from this episode, Wesley Galjour, via his website or on LinkedIn.
We're gonna cut to the chase when it comes to this week's episode....the reality in 2024 is this: the stakes could not be higher than the possible mental, financial, emotional, and lifestyle consequences one can face when a serious family relationship (such as a marriage, coparenting partnership, or other serious romantic relationship) goes astray. This is why we brought back our ORIGINAL, first-EVER guest from our very first episode of Law Have Mercy! podcast (S1 E1)-- Wesley "Wes" Galjour. Wes is a family law specialist here in Lafayette, LA who has helped countless clients navigate the painful, high-stakes reality of picking up the pieces after a family drama and personal catastrophe, so few are better equipped to share the harsh, cautionary realities with you, our listener.
On this episode of the Law Have Mercy! podcast, we brought Wes back to talk about the two topics that we've been DMed about more than ANY other since the inception of this podcast: 1) How to protect your assets & finances in a romantic relationship (AKA COMMUNITY PROPERTY BASICS) and 2) How someone could obtain sole custody of a child in a situation where that may be necessary/appropriate.
No matter if you're a hopeless romantic or a practical logician and whether you've experienced the heartaches of family drama for yourself or have witnessed it while observing others' experiences, in 2024, we all know that these wonderful relationships can far too often go awry, leading to drama of epic proportions within the relationship or family. With this in mind, learning the basic fundamentals Wes shares in this episode when it comes to family law are absolutely, irrefutably invaluable.
With the unparalleled insights provided by Wes' expertise, we promise to elevate your understanding of the family law basics you NEED to know in 2024 if you're currently in a relationship, considering engaging in a relationship, or parenting a child (currently or in the future). Tune in as we delve into the significance of prenuptial agreements, dissect the legal distinctions between separate and community property, and explore what it truly takes for a court to consider granting sole custody of a child. Make no mistake....these are family law fundamentals that can GREATLY impact your life and relationships, making this a critical listen for anyone who is currently-- or may become-- involved in any type of relationship in the foreseeable future.
In the realm of legal practice, resilience is key, and this episode navigates the emotional and mental demands that come with the territory. We paint a vivid picture of the challenges and rewards faced by fa
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This show is co-produced by Carter Simoneaux of AcadianaCasts Network, Chaz H. Roberts of Chaz Roberts Law and Kayli Guidry Bonin of Beau The Agency, and Laith Alferahin.
Hey guys, it's Chaz Roberts with Law. Have Mercy. On today's episode I bring back our first ever guest family lawyer, wesley Gaujour. He was an awesome, awesome guest. We talk about community property, soul custody, all types of family law issues. We talk about work-life balance, what it's like to be your own boss. Fill with content. I know you'll enjoy. Tune in, wes. I got you all the way out of court to come be with us again. How you doing today.
Speaker 2:I'm doing good. It's Friday. I'm done with court for the week after three days in court, so looking forward to the weekend for sure.
Speaker 1:Man court. Weeks are especially difficult in our world. Not only do you burn a white shirt or, in your case, a blue shirt, you go to a dry clean cleaner and you bring like 10 shirts after a week or two and it's like man. I had a rough couple of weeks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you could tell by the laundry how busy you've been in court.
Speaker 1:What's going on in family, in the family law world?
Speaker 2:Just busy, unfortunately. Fortunately busy, you know. Tons of work, tons of people that need help out there and I'm blessed to have been as busy as ever. Put it that way.
Speaker 1:What's cool is you are our actual first guest ever on Law have Mercy, but I've probably sent your podcast to at least 20, 30 people. When they call me with family law questions, I'm like, look, wes answered them all in this first podcast. Here you go Right. Have people told you that they've heard you on the podcast?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Two weeks ago, someone you had sent came to my office, retained me and yeah, he's like I saw you on the podcast and after that that was it. I wanted you to answer my question specifically. Based on how you know, I approached your questions at the last one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, we cover a lot. We've talked about divorce, some child custody stuff we talked about. I've had a lot of questions about soul custody. That was one of the things that they wanted more specifics. Soul custody is pretty difficult to get right.
Speaker 2:Yes, soul custody quite difficult. A judge who is no longer on the bench here in the 15th JDC used to say you need crack cocaine abuse with a baseball bat, straight up abandonment. You know serious, serious things. So yeah, it's a totally different standard than joint custody. Soul custody is when the other party really has just visitation. They have no decision making power. They don't have to even receive notice from the parent who has soul custody. So it's really all that bundle of rights more or less laying with one parent.
Speaker 1:You can get it, but it is quite difficult you know, and I would imagine I mean look our TikTok audiences through the. Actually I had somebody from Africa ask me community property question. So it's world, it's a global audience. But I would imagine that the soul custody standard is pretty much universal in terms of you need something really bad to an in order to take some type of custody away from the other parent.
Speaker 2:Correct, I would say in most states, especially Southern states I'm most familiar with Texas, mississippi, alabama, tennessee you know it's something very serious and usually when soul custody is given it's in a very temporary nature. It's until the other parent can get clean drug screens or can move back into town after living out of state or, you know, they might have been away for X amount of time, literally disappeared. Whatever shows back up, okay, get back involved in the kids life. Very rarely do you get a soul custody where it's it's ordered and it's it's finalized through the end because the other parents typically going to get a chance to make their case come back in the child's life and have some decision work their way back in essentially and jump some, jump some hurdles and jump through some hoops and work their way in with the court supervision.
Speaker 2:Right Prove to the court that you've met these certain child custody factors and that the child is deserving and you're deserving of being back in that life on a day to day decision making basis.
Speaker 1:And the reason I'm going through soul custody. I got a lot of questions about soul custody. Do you have people like going to your office where you represent the mother or the father and they, they want soul custody and you guys say, whoa, slow down.
Speaker 2:Correct it's. You know. I tell them look, you have a chance. But there's no guarantee and sometimes I have had people. I had a lady come in three years ago where she knew the father didn't want to participate. She knew he just wanted out. He went to pay his child support, see his kids every other weekend de minimis, and I got her soul custody because he was willing to sign off on it without a hearing. Never bucked it, never changed anything. Yeah, other people that come in saying, oh, I have this, this and this. I'm saying, look, you can maybe get temporary soul custody for a while on this. But if that person fixes this issue, if they dump the bad you know, current boyfriend, girlfriend if they get off of drugs, they could be worked in the courts. Typically like to see a good success story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but look, you're a father, you know like. You probably talk to him and say all right, I know you want to know some bad stuff going on, but do you really want the child not to have any contact with his father or his mother? Right, do you? I'm sure you counsel them on that too.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and it's unfortunate because people come in there thinking it's the best thing for their kid, not tell them no. Child psychiatrists say both parents having something, anyone in a parental role, kids need it the more, the merrier you know it's. It's ideal to have that, uh, that parenting figure from a male perspective and a female perspective. So sometimes I do have to counsel the client, bring them down a notch, saying look, unless this person was really bad, abusing the child, they saw him doing drugs, doing X, y and Z. You know they need to be in the kid's life at least in some kind of way, maybe not on a day to day but on a weekend basis, whether or not making doctor's appointments, uh, signing up for school extracurriculars things of that nature.
Speaker 1:You know, one thing where we didn't spend a whole lot of time on is community property. I don't think we talked about community property, separate property, that kind of thing. I like to go into that in a little bit, if you're, if you're down for it, Sure Um, because there's a lot of um misunderstanding when it comes to to community property, and I think that's probably one of the biggest consequences of a divorce or even a marriage before the divorce is dealing with the assets when something happens. So I'd like to get into that in a little bit.
Speaker 2:Sure, I mean. So basics for community property. You're kind of stuck with what you have unless you do something in advance. People always ask okay, how can I get insurance for a divorce? How can you prepare, if it happens, a prenuptial agreement? Biggest thing, what's mine is mine, what's yours is yours, what's ours is ours. You can make it that simple where it's three buckets and you're putting things, you're not commingling things, things like that. You can also deal with spousal support to a certain degree in a prenuptial agreement as well. If people have that, they opt out of the legal regime of community property. Acets and gains is the uh, is the old, the old name?
Speaker 1:Get that.
Speaker 2:prenup is what I said Get that prenup, you know, especially if you have enough assets. But then a lot of people and I hear it from women and frankly, if you meant to, I don't want to do a prenup. Am I dooming my marriage from the start, if I get that? And it's an awkward conversation, absolutely. And and you see the full range of facts People come in two months after the engagement talking about a prenup. Sometimes they don't get married because of it. Some people come two weeks before the marriage and talk about it. Does that?
Speaker 1:put a stress on it, are you the? See, I didn't have to worry about it because I didn't have anything when I got married. Do you have to have that conversation with your client? Okay, you wanna pay me to do a prenup? You're broke, you have nothing to protect. We cannot protect things that are required during the marriage, and you have nothing to protect on your own, so you really don't need a prenup, right?
Speaker 2:well, you can't protect some things that are required during the marriage. So if someone has a new business, they started it before the marriage, so it'll be separate property. But what about the fruits and revenues of that business? What about other growth and where they put the funds from that business? All can be very tangled. Some very specific laws that have changed in the last 15 years on some of that as things go forward. So even if they are broke, they'll do it. Some people protect the other side from debt, coming in with 200 grand of doctor student loans. You know, are we gonna pay that off during the community? Did they have a reimbursement claim for those kind of things? A lot of questions that can come up.
Speaker 1:That's a good one, for sure. Yeah, so technically you are broke because you're $200,000 in debt, so we don't wanna bring that and make that a marital obligation.
Speaker 2:Correct, correct, and it would be a separate property obligation because it's done before. But then there's all these little factors If you were going to school while you were married and the other spouse is working two jobs to let you go, sometimes that minimizes the reimbursement claim. Sometimes other things come into play and the thing is, community property can be something that's so specific where you look at case law, individual instances that match closely to your facts, and apply it that way. On the other hand, some things are very broad. When you pay $120,000 down payment on a house that's gonna be the community house, with separate funds, law's pretty clear. You only get half of that back and some people understand that beforehand. Some people don't, and they come in with either the wrong expectations they were given wrong advice or unreasonable expectations because they think they have it.
Speaker 1:Well, we had a whole class on community property in law school and it was a whole section of the bar right and not an easy section, especially when it comes to Louisiana law and all the presumptions and this. But since we're diving in the community property law, I just wanna give just a basic understanding of what community property is. That's what applies in Louisiana. I know there's several other states that apply community property law too, but it's basically like things that you own before the marriage are considered separate property. Things that you acquire during the marriage are usually considered or presumed to be community property, and the reason why that's important is that once you get a divorce, the things that are community property are going to be pretty much split, for lack of a better term right.
Speaker 1:So if you bought property before the marriage and then you build a house on it, it might still be considered separate property, right? But if you get married on January 1st and you buy a track of land on January 2nd and then you build a home on January 30th, that's considered community property, even though you made all the money before you got married. Okay, so there's several rules and exceptions and all that stuff, but just know that community property is a big deal.
Speaker 2:It's a big deal, and you know-.
Speaker 1:And you should have an attorney that's pretty well versed in it.
Speaker 2:Right, that knows and can explain it to you.
Speaker 1:Someone better than me. All right, Don't call me about your community property questions. Call less.
Speaker 2:No, and it's a lot, and it's more money, more problems and every case is unique. So often we see one side of the family parents give them the lot behind there. Okay, so, like you said, the lot is theirs. But then the spouse adds in on the mortgage. So the mortgage is there while the house is tied to the land. So before you know, that other spouse has the house. Clearly, spouse who joined in the mortgage doesn't have ownership of the house, doesn't have ownership of the land, has a claim to the principal payments only made during the community, oh, not even the interest Not the interest.
Speaker 2:So if you're in year three and the interest is 95% of the payment, you're out of luck. Now, if you've been in that house 27 years, you have a big old reimbursement claim because the payments are flipped it's 95% towards the principal, not towards the interest.
Speaker 1:Wes. Is that why some banks make in that situation and this is prominent in Louisiana, especially where I'm from out in the country, in Sicily, where you have family tracks of land? Is that why banks make you donate a small portion of the separate property to a spouse before they agree to a loan, so that they can tie up two people on it?
Speaker 2:Sometimes the banks do that, but ultimately it's kind of up to the closing attorney. I don't see that many donations like you just described. For the most part, what I do see is a clear statement in a deed that these parties are married. However, party Y is using their separate funds to pay for this house initiating a reimbursement claim. Sometimes there's a separate document that's not filed, signed with other party acknowledges. Sometimes the party acknowledges on there. You see it done all kind of different ways, varying levels of cleanliness, for title purposes and community property purposes, but they're typically not talking to a divorced attorney, a family law attorney, when they're doing that. So how well versed is that closing attorney at the time? Or has one side of the family gone through it and they know some of the details, what to do? It's experience is a big part of it too.
Speaker 1:Okay, a guy gets married to his wife. He works for a company for 15 years. He contributes to the 401K or the retirement they decide to get a divorce. Is that money in the retirement subject to community property?
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. Any retirement funds, any penny made this is kind of how I describe it when you get married, the first day after that marriage half of every penny you make is your spouse, including what you put into retirement. The thing with retirement it can get confusing because a lot of times people have retirement before marriage. So then you kind of have two streams. Do you have a stream of separate community or separate property in the, in the quadra, the 401k, whatever you want to call it there building up during the marriage? Then you have another stream of community funds with community gains, but absolutely you know retirement accounts of all times, pensions, 401ks, roth IRAs, the whole nine yards SEP, all available.
Speaker 1:Bro, I don't know if we encourage anybody to get married right now. Marriage has consequences. There are good ones and there are bad ones.
Speaker 2:Marriage absolutely has consequences big time under the law. That's why I try not to refer to myself as a divorce attorney. It was so prominent in the 70s and the 80s when divorce law was really ramping up. It was a lot of animosity, divorce, divorce, divorce. Now, to be honest with you, probably a third third of my cases are unmarried couples. So what issues do I have with that? Custody and child support? But, like you said, consequences of marriage, talking about divorce now, talking about spousal support, interim and final, and the big ticket, community property, you know, and some people's community property is relatively straightforward Okay, everything they bought, everything they had, was during the marriage, a house, retirement account for dad at a 401k and an oil and gas company. Mom was a teacher. She has, you know, school teachers retirement, things like that.
Speaker 1:There's some offset there.
Speaker 2:There's some offset there. Absolutely Normally people that have a fair amount of assets it could be relatively easy because you're moving pieces around. Yeah, if I get another attorney and there's a dozen 15 other attorneys in town, I know when I get this case, if they're on the other side, we'll be able to settle the community property Because the facts are there, clear, straightforward. Even if we can't settle at all, we're only going to litigate an issue or two. Saves money for the client, saves stress for me and the client. Happy client. They tell other people about that.
Speaker 1:That's why you're such a good referral. That's why I like sending people to you, because I know that you sit down and you try to you're very honest with your client and say, look, this is going to cost a lot of money, right, and this could get really ugly, but let's try to work and play nice on some of these deals. If we have to get ugly, we will get ugly, because that's where it's going, but that's not the best route. I don't need to make a ton of money on your case. I want you happy because I want you to send me people in the future.
Speaker 2:Correct. I'd rather have you know 10, $5,000 cases with happy people, less stress going out the door, than $150,000.
Speaker 1:Right, it's a closed.
Speaker 2:It's 10 closed cases, right 10 closed cases and people don't want this to go on for forever, even though they might come into my office thinking we're going to do this, we're going to do that scorched earth. No, you don't. You might think you want that now, but that's not really what you want, and you're right. I don't bullsh** it. I don't sugarcoat. You're screwed on this. You have a good chance on that. I don't know. On that. People ask me percentages all the time. Flip a coin, right, you know, because there's stuff that's going to come out, because people are, unfortunately, always honest with their attorney. You know I find out things in the back end. Well, you could have told me this early on. You filled out this questionnaire, I asked you this at the consult and a month later you didn't tell me. So don't hide things from me, you know. On the other hand, you have people that are doing great, great, great and they hit a snag somewhere in a new relationship while litigation is going on and it will sink their case.
Speaker 1:Life happens. Life happens Absolutely. I tell everyone be honest with your attorney. You have the highest level of protection for the communications you have with your attorney. It's confidential, it's privileged. Why would you not tell your lawyer? And that's the same in personal injury as it is in family law. I want to know where all the bodies are buried, right, because then there will be no surprises. The less amount of surprises I have, the better representation I can give, absolutely.
Speaker 3:So this is the beauty of law have mercy. You know you're talking about uh, these uh, what are you uh community property? Excuse me, and I'm on my louisiana succession dot com and seeing uh, what is louisiana? Uh, under louisiana law, what is uh not considered community property? And there's some legalese going on here. I'm hoping that you can break this down for me. So it says right here in the second bullet assets acquired by a spouse with a separate property or with a mix of community and separate property, when the value of the community property used to acquire the asset is inconsequential in comparison with the value of the separate property used. Can you please break that down for me?
Speaker 2:so if it's a minimal cost coming out from separate property to community, this literally kind of maybe makes it easy for the court to more or less just say look, lump, we're going to lump it in, we're going to count it as x or y. So you don't have to fight about yeah and that's. You know little things putting down well. Well, yeah, that was my car, but you added the two thousand dollar, this, that and the other to it. So is it? You know community funds being used to enhance my separate property.
Speaker 2:Look, if it's inconsequential. Sometimes you don't count it, and likewise, I know you said that you pulled it from the succession site, something else that people worry about. What about my inheritance? When you get that inheritance, it is definitely your separate property nine times out of ten, but you have to be careful what you use it on, what those fruits and what the growth on that inheritance does. Okay, your parents gifted you with this retirement account that they socked money away in for 20 years without you knowing well what. What about that now? What are those funds now? Sure, the base value when you were married is absolutely your separate property, but if you didn't reserve certain fruits and revenues and they were done through no, no, no hard work or labor of your action that could be community value yeah, another.
Speaker 1:That's another great word from fami. Law is commingling right and so if you inherit money it's separate property. Now if you take it and you put it into the joint account, the community account, and it gets, you take out 500, you put a thousand, you take out 2000, you put 500 and starts getting commingled and we can't readily identify it from looking at a few bank statements. Then you pretty much lost your right to that separate property yes, and no, I knew you were gonna say yes the one word such a good lawyer the one word you didn't add to commingling was hopelessly commingled.
Speaker 2:That's the phrase where you see, in court cases where it was such a nightmare that the court would throw their hands up, you'd have two cpa's, two attorneys, sometimes a third cpa, everybody arguing for it. Each party has their own expert. The court may have their own expert to try to figure it out. That was very prevalent, like we said when in the 80s, when divorce really ramped up community property custody, just nasty things like that you can't figure out where the money went. Now, with the advent of electronic banking and records being held longer and a judge who's willing to do the work, and one of my favorite judges here locally in the 15th jdc said look, it's not that really hopelessly commingled anymore. If I can get the records I'll figure it out, or the attorneys should be able to figure it out for me. So that's why I say yes and no. A lot of it depends on records. How far back can you go? The irs and again, whoever you have for your tax uh, your tax podcast can probably answer this better than me.
Speaker 2:Irs only has to keep your terms for so many years. If you're dealing with a 30 year marriage, forget about divorce documents for divorce from 25, 30 years ago. But recently I have had a case where I had to go back 17 years. Tax records were gone, bank records, forget about it. They were gone at the three or seven year mark. How did we get financial details, social security benefits? So all the quarters, everything they put in social security, kept that better than the tax records to forget what that person was grossing and or netting some minimal details, but details nonetheless for the income for those years. That was 20 years before.
Speaker 1:So if you listen to this and you get some separate property from inheritance or some type of other form of separate property, keep it in a separate bank account, because then you don't have to pay for two or three lawyers, you don't have to pay for all competing cpas, you don't have to ask the judge to go through spreadsheets for the last 10 years. Keep it separate and don't hopelessly commingle it correct in the bank account and sometimes you have to give notice.
Speaker 2:The laws changed right around you and I were taking the bar, I think in 08 or 09 the laws changed on what kind of notice you had to give the party saying, look, you know, you should be able to just have a document sticking in a dresser drawer, right, the dresser drawer deed that we learned about in law school. Put it in there 20 years later. Look, honey, I reserved all these fruits from this separate property. You don't get any of it. No notice. Now you have to give them notice. Ideally you give them notice in front of a notary. They sign off two witnesses. You file it in the clerks records. Especially if it deals with some kind of physical property and movable property, land or a business, they get full notice. They can't come a lot harder to argue against it. You know yeah, I.
Speaker 1:I would imagine that most of the divorces, like when it comes to community property here in louisiana it's not the hollywood, you know multi million dollar situations. It's usually a car, two cars, a house, some bank accounts, maybe a retirement account or two. We're not talking about millions and millions and millions of dollars every now and then.
Speaker 2:I mean I do have some high, higher earner clients, people that have inherited a family business, or someone that is a doctor or a big business owner where their income is greater than 30 000 a month, let's say for child support purposes. It's off the charts. The courts, the courts willing to do what they want to do. So there are some big ones like that and then there's lots of small ones and everything in between do you like taking the big ones on?
Speaker 2:I don't mind it, it really a lot of it. To be honest with you, the wealthier the client sometimes, the less animosity in the case. They know they don't want to pay an attorney. They have plenty to go around and split up as long as they feel like they got a fair and adequate you know judgment, that their voice was heard and they participated in it. They're following, do you?
Speaker 1:ever? Do you ever take on the husband and the wife together and help them resolve it? Are you always handle one party I have to take?
Speaker 2:one part. Ethically in louisiana you can't represent both parties. Attorneys, especially some well well known and attorneys with more experience than me some turns been on the been, you know, been a member of the bar for 30, 40 years have done that in a roundabout way or try to be sneaky around it. I can only represent one party. I make that very clear when the one person comes in for a consult. If one person meets with me and they bring the other person said look, leave that person in the car or up front they never.
Speaker 2:They never, uh, you know, enter into my inner sanctum in the back and I make it very clear that person retains me and I tell them look, I'm more than willing to work with the other party. They're free to go get an attorney. They can ask me questions. I will answer them honestly and openly. If they don't answer, if they don't ask me the right questions, I don't have to answer them because I'm not representing them, you know. And kids with cases, I always try to put the kids first. Next it's my clients, clients that don't have any kids. They're, they're number one. The other party's always going to be second.
Speaker 1:But again, the client and the facts drive the case more than me, in my opinion of things you know, let's, let's assume that, uh, I send you a friend of mine who goes and says I want to file divorce me and my wife, or me and my girlfriend and we have kids. Everybody's on the same page. You have them, I'm sure you probably had. You could prepare all the paperwork, correct, right for your client and then advise the other party that they should get an attorney and probably put that in writing somewhere and they can waive that right and then sign off on the paperwork and then the two of them work it out. They pay one attorney and you could file the paperwork that way right, so that that's am I all faced there?
Speaker 2:that's very common okay, typically the only time you have to advise another party in writing and get that in writing from them. An unrepresented party is community property. That's when I do it. But for like simple service of a divorce rather than a sheriff's deputy, go knock on their door. Come into my office. I'll be with you up front. You're not my client, my secretary. Be there watching third party eyes the whole time. Sign off on a waiver of service. Look, this is your chance. Go talk to an attorney. This is what we filed. I can email you in a couple of days with what the proposal is from my client, your ex-soon-to-be-ex-spouse, and maybe we'll get it all done. Then they'll come back in and if it deals with certain things, I'll get them to sign off in front of either me as a notary or a third-party notary with two witnesses, and they could settle everything. I'll file it. My client signs off their attorney. Underneath the other side is improper person or pro se representing yourself. Instead of an attorney's address or contact information, is that person's address.
Speaker 1:Boom, You're fine and done, I would say that they're spending half of what they would be spending had she hired a lawyer or he hired a lawyer the other side. But it's really more than half right, Because just by the adversarial nature of divorce you got to be cutting more than half the cost if one person, if they agree, and then come If they agree.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. A lot of times it unfortunately depends on the attorney on the other side. Are they going to try to build a case and make some issues that aren't there? Are they going to be direct forward and get it done? So much of it doesn't depend on the client, sometimes even the facts. It depends on the other attorney and how they would approach it. What I like to do, I like to try to predict what I think is good, fair, reasonable, equitable. Look, this is how I'd like to see your case go, based on what you've done in the past and where you're at now. What will it take for us to get there? Are we going to have to litigate it or not? Nine times out of 10, a client will follow my lead. They'll say, yeah, this makes sense. Okay, I didn't know about that. Now you've informed me, I'm okay with this and that's kind of where their case goes and it's up to them at that point.
Speaker 1:Without naming names. Let's assume you're a bad man. Do you have any jokers in town? Do you have any arch rivals?
Speaker 2:Not really true arch rivals. There's a short list, maybe three, five, six, seven at the most of where I know if they get a case and unfortunately we're going to have to litigate something. And the other thing is the other 20, 30 attorneys in town that I get along swimmingly well with. They know who those people are. We know the family law world in a seven-perish area isn't that huge. We have the main players attorneys who do it all the time, some who dabble in it, some who don't like to do it but have to do it to pay the bills, some who just feel like they can do everything. So it's unfortunate. Like you said, there are a few jokers penguins ridlers out there.
Speaker 1:So you've got the joker, the penguin the ridler.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And then it's like, if you see that trend, it's like, well, every case can't be that bad, it's just that particular lawyer that makes it that bad.
Speaker 2:Right and it's unfortunate, and sometimes even despite those attorneys that I maybe don't get along well with or I know who are just adversarial, like to go through those other steps. Sometimes the case is too straightforward. They can't make it into this nightmare blow up because the parties are getting along that well. So sometimes even then you know you can get along good. Likewise people that when I see their name on the other side I'm so happy, I'm so glad to go up against ABC attorney, because we know we can work it out.
Speaker 2:I know we can work it out, but then the case is just a nightmare. It's very few issues are black and white. Right, nobody wins in divorce. Right, it's the death of a marriage, the death of a relationship. Nobody wins in child custody. You're not seeing your kid all the time.
Speaker 1:Simple as that. Your best bet is half.
Speaker 2:Nobody. The best bet is half, and even then it's not fair. Everybody deserves to see their kid every morning.
Speaker 1:It's my opinion.
Speaker 2:But you can't do it in divorce. Child support same thing, nobody wins, you're not getting enough or you're getting too much. And child support is calculated two ways in the state very not fair. Community property same thing. There's no way to quantify those things, so not a lot of black and white in my area of law, unfortunate.
Speaker 1:So let's say your opponent hires a joker and then a person comes into your office and wants to hire you and you see that joker's on the other side. Are you charging more?
Speaker 2:Sometimes yeah. Unfortunately, say look, you know your deposit's going to go up because I know they're going to at least do X, y and Z before attempting settlement. Or, you know, sometimes maybe it doesn't. I just prepare the client Like, look, I know how this operates, they're going to look through issues that may or may not even be there just to do it, and sometimes they consider it due diligence. Sometimes it's not. You could be real world, you know it's.
Speaker 1:Bro, that's so frustrating. Yeah, that is so frustrating. I mean that I encountered that in my brief period of practice in family law of how, because family law you get so much pressure from the client, right and I've said this many times you're going straight to heaven. I mean like Boom, I try.
Speaker 1:Right, I'm going to be in the positions of the saint right, but you're getting so much pressure because it's so emotionally charged and I can put myself in their shoes. I mean, you're talking about kids. You're talking about bank account, like kids and money in a home Hello, oh, my car, right. And so you're trying to do the best you can and you know that they're tapped out financially, stress wise, whatever. And then you got to deal with a difficult client, a difficult lawyer on the other side. I don't know how you do it, man.
Speaker 2:It's all about.
Speaker 1:You just shrug it off. It's all about balance.
Speaker 2:Well, look, I'm as stressed out as any attorney, for sure, right, you know, and I feel like sometimes I live my client's lives even though I haven't done the things they do. I'm not in their shoes. But also, I think that's why I'm so good and why I get so many good referrals from good people is that, you know, everybody says, oh, the caring attorney, this person, look, I'm not burned out. Yet. I know some older attorneys feel like they're burned out. Some attorneys, wes give it 25 years, you'll be so jaded you won't care about this. I'm always going to care and that's why I try to advise people to minimize stress, and do that. When they don't listen to my advice is when it really kind of comes back to bite them. But then I feel the stress too. I find some attorneys they don't care, they'll shoot from the hip, they'll throw it up in the air, they see it as a billable hour, they'll move on, you know, and whether or not they get bad references and people don't go to them, I don't know.
Speaker 1:But um, that's how do you, how do you shake it off? I mean, I, I, the older I get, ironically I don't become more jaded. I'm, I'm less jaded than ever. I love what I do, but I've I sleep well at night. Probably for the first Ten years of my career I didn't sleep well at night, right, because I, because I was thinking about cases all day. Now I do what I can from 6 am To 6 pm, and then I'm at peace with it because I'm better at what I do, right, really, how do you cope with that stress?
Speaker 2:same thing.
Speaker 1:You leave it at the office and try not to let it follow you and it, and there's times when you probably slip up and you're a Little more aggravated at home, and we're no, nobody's perfect Right absolutely.
Speaker 2:And you know, and I tell clients all the time like, look, I might not be Accessible 24 hours by phone, but I'm 24 hours by email and I know the ones that have a kid missing, someone got out of jail, that are very high-tent stuff. I'm gonna call 24 seven on those. I've had interstate cases where the police were literally going six states away Pick up a child forcefully. Yeah, I need to be In in them in the minute, in the zone the whole time till that kid comes back to the parent. You know. But, yeah, how do I deal with stress? You said I've been blessed with an abundance of patience. You know I'm so fortunate to have a lot of good things in my personal life to where, yes, my stressor can be work, but I try not to let that come home and affect me with my wife, my kids, my family, the things I like to do. The work life balance.
Speaker 1:Like you and I have discussed before yeah, kaylee actually brought up to my attention. She said chess, it's, it's she. She brought a great point I never thought of. She's like the two things that you do now I enjoy coaching youth athletics. Obviously we've coached together. The two things that you do for fun Running marathons, four hours of running and boxing, getting punched in the face, like those are the two things that you choose to escape. That says a lot about how stressful your job is that you would choose those two pass to to escape. Yeah, what do you do for fun?
Speaker 2:I like to spend time with my family. My wife told me several years ago that Music festivals, concerts, was her love language and I've taken that to the full. So her and I try to keep a busy social schedule. We do Plenty of Mardi Gras events. We go to parties around Christmas time with different groups of friends and we go to music festivals. We're going to Atlanta in a few months for one, you know, I'm gonna do jazz fest. We do festival international here, plenty of things like that. We also have our shows we watch, whether it's Netflix, hulu, amazon Prime, whatever. We hear recommendations from friends, we get involved. We watch that together.
Speaker 2:Then my boys, you know I am, just like you, father with two sons. One is more along my lines, kind of nerdy and likes all these nerdy things, so I'm all in with him. My other one was the jock that I kind of always wanted to be. So sporting events. We go to LSU games, you L games, saints, stuff like that. I can watch as many sports as I want with him. The other one, sci-fi. Let's do as much science fiction stuff as we can. Like you said, I'm involved. I Coach, have assistant coach and some sports things. I'm a scout leader for both of them, ones and boy scouts, ones and cup scout. So all that combined, I mean I love it because my weekends are mostly filled and it's either with my wife, son a, son B, whatever you know that's, that's a good release. It shows me how blessed I am and what I have and how fortunate you know.
Speaker 1:I really really am, or any of them, showing any kind of interest in the law or what you think you know a lawyer would be, I mean do you bring him to? The office.
Speaker 2:They come to the office with me. I like to have a policy. When I do have to work on Saturdays, I try to always bring one of them with me. That's some kind of minimal quality time. I look at them and that's what I'm working for. You know, that's that's my drive and we hang out. You know, whether they're building a Lego set, playing on a tablet, reading a book, will go get some fun lunch somewhere. As you know, they see it, I would say my oldest mold, this one is too creative to be an attorney. He wouldn't like it as much my young.
Speaker 2:Good for him, and that's what I tell my youngest is is pure D would be an attorney if he's not gonna be a major league pitcher. You know that's where he's at, he's a talker. He's good. I have to say, proud, proud dad moment. He really didn't want the spelling be at school, not only for his grade but to grade levels up. I, who is this kid? Yeah, that that brains is for my wife, not for me. Yeah, maybe he'd be an attorney. But to be honest with you, sometimes I'd be fine if they both be attorneys. Sometimes I say, guys, I don't know if you don't want to stress, go run a business some way right.
Speaker 1:You know Well, being an attorney is. I mean, look at what we do. We're having this conversation about family law, but we're doing completely different things. You don't know much about personal injury. I don't know much about and we. You could be a senator, you can be in politics, you could be a, you can own a business, you can run a business. You'd be a lobbyist. I mean, there's so many avenues you can. You can go with a law degree, right, and I think that's the appeal of why so many people become lawyers.
Speaker 2:And that's exactly why I decided to get it, because of the flexibility. You know, going to LSU for undergrad, I knew that I wanted a job where I'd interact with other people, help people kind of directly, you know. But I'd figured by freshman year, okay, I'm gonna go to law school, just for the flexibility of a law degree. And my dad's friends who were attorneys that's what they said, west, get that degree, but don't make you know, make sure you you have the open mindset that maybe I won't be an attorney, maybe I'll do this or that. You know, and Another advice of a judge here in town. He's like West, you know, you did your four years in Baton Rouge. Get a new scenery around. Why don't you go to law school when you are? So that was a big, big push, for I went to Loyola too, another city holding you set of friends to meet things like that, and I gave me perspective too.
Speaker 1:Did you ever think you'd be a family lawyer?
Speaker 2:No, I always thought I'd probably do oil and gas law because that's kind of where my family background was. One of my grandfathers was a tugboat captain, owned two river boats. The other one worked offshore as a superintendent for all kind of big major companies. My dad was a petroleum engineer so always thought we'll in gas Jobs summer summers of college, do landmining, work on gas and any working. That's where I actually started. After I clerked for a year in general jurisdiction, then about four months or so in family court, I got hired away by an oil and gas land company, went do that, title opinions, big transactional work, negotiating with landowners or companies, things like that. I liked it For whatever reason. God said that's not what you're gonna do. I saw the market going down in 13 and and I found an older attorney here in town and start a 14, went into his office, opened my own shop and learned family law and went from there 10 years later, you know.
Speaker 1:Well, the next question I have, because I never envisioned, but did you ever think you would have your own shop?
Speaker 2:Whenever I was probably a year or two into family law, I realized that there are some firms in town but for the most part Clients want to deal with one attorney when it comes to family law. They wouldn't want Wes and his associates, they would want Wes. So my own shop yeah, I mean, I was never afraid of it or anything like that. It was kind of inevitable. I do think, on the other hand, it makes sense sometimes to at least office share or have some kind of minimal, you know, agreement or understanding with another attorney to lower expenses, have somebody to cover for you back and forth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I was. I was thinking back to when I mean I would. I'm like one of the OGs all of a sudden, because we're 15 years and 14 15 years in, and so I've been practicing on my own since I'm about 26. I only lasted nine months with a defense firm, right, and then I basically went out hung my shingle. I remember being in law school. You know, I didn't have lawyers in my family. I didn't really know any lawyers, so I didn't know what to expect. I remember thinking in law school I was like man, maybe when I'm like 45 I'll have my own shop, and I just assumed I would work for someone else. And here it is. I've been on my own for about 13, 14 years. I couldn't imagine any other way, right? Let's see. It's amazing how that happens.
Speaker 2:It is, and you know, being your own boss, you have all the stress, but you also have all the benefits. You know and, like you said, whether, whether we thought it would happen at at 35 or 55, you know, you never really know, but here, we are.
Speaker 1:It's cool man, so when can people find you? So do you have a website now? Last time I don't think you had the website. I have a website.
Speaker 2:Now, you know, and look it's. It's gauze or law. Calm, simple as that I'm. A number is 337, 5, 3, 4, 0, 1, 1, 1. The wild thing is is that one of the first things people write when they come in for a consultation is how did you hear about me? No one ever says the website. It's always from other clients, somebody I know from in town or other attorneys. You know, and that's it's. It's a referral driven business, as much as any type of law, because it's so personal. You know, I build these relationships with people. I know their deepest, darkest secrets. I know their greatest hopes, their fears. I see their kids grow up. I mean, I've represented people for 10 plus years now. So I've seen some people that had a six month old baby that is now 10 and a half years old. You know, and I've tracked it and maybe not hear from him for a year or two, but something happens that update child support after update custody this way and I hear from them and you reconnect like that.
Speaker 1:You know where those old dogs? I used to go in a conference room and say now I look, I know I look young, but I really have a lot of experience. Six, seven years. And now people are like dude, you got all that gray hair on the side, you don't? You don't need a preface it anymore. Right, we know you've been around the block exactly exactly, west. Thank you so much, man Appreciate you my pleasure.
Speaker 1:Enjoy the trip, bro, for sure. Thank you, hey. It would mean the world to me if you subscribe to the podcast and leave us a five-star review. It helps keep the show free and it helps us book better guests to provide more valuable content to you. None of the opinions expressed by my guests are that of my own, and nothing we talked about creates an attorney-client relationship or could be construed as legal advice. Hope you enjoy the show.
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